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A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

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Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#91

Post by nickburns »

nickpp wrote: post #90
seszett wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's funny that Apple is condemned here for applying inside their own platform the exact same strategy the EU is applying inside its tech market. The EU is a regulatory body and a union of democratic sovereign states. There is no comparison to be had whatsoever with a multinational for-profit company.

I actually live in the EU. We (the citizens) have zero control over that regulatory body. ZERO. None of those represent me and I have no way of influencing them in any way. While multinational companies?! I can actually stop being their customer and vote with my wallet. Much more democratic, IMHO.

'voting with one's wallet' is a euphemism hardly to do with the democratic process in any real sense.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#92

Post by nickburns »

simonjgreen wrote: post #75
shiroiushi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>An obviously absurd analogy is if a hammer company was somehow able to force you to use their brand of nails and wood and charge you per annum for the use of whatever you built. We did not have previous legislation to handle this situation, because simple physics means that can't happen. But with modern-day complicated tools, it can, and so some regulation of this sector is absolutely needed. Is it though? To extend…

Swap ‘hammer’ for ‘crimp tool’ and now you’re in to reality

the total market size for crimping tools pales in comparison to that for hammers. distinguishable on that fact alone.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#93

Post by nickburns »

nickpp wrote: post #80
nickburns wrote: post #6

that it's taken this long for an iOS clipboard manager (using obvious SDK controls) is nutty.

The fact that I don't have to worry if the newfangled clipboard manager my grandma was tricked into installing is sending the passwords she is copy&paste-ing to a server in China is wonderful.

consider grandparental controls for your nan. much better to have control than give it up. good god man, help her!

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#94

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

nickpp wrote: post #69
rvense wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To start: There absolutely should be limits to what kinds of devices can be sold. E.g., they should not be dangerous to operate. If you can't make a lawnmower that doesn't harm people, it's OK for governments or the EU to tell you that you can't sell lawnmowers. It's also OK to enforce standardization in e.g. electrical sockets and other basic infrastructure. This should not come down to "consumer preference" - _espe…

> Apple's total control of all aspects of the iPhone platform is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less technologically literate. EU's attempted total control of all aspects of the tech platforms is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less economically literate. It's funny that Apple is condemned here for applying inside their o…

> EU's attempted total control of all aspects of the tech platforms is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less economically literate.

Who is economically illiterate here exactly? If I buy an iPhone, who owns it? Me, or Apple? According to you, it's Apple. Because they own the "platform" they get to decide what software you can run on it. No option to opt out.

Apple denying user choice for their own interest, on user owned hardware, is so obviously anti-consumer that only an ideologue would deny it.

> "For your own safety" is how authoritarianism raises.

Do you mean how Apple denys user freedom "for their own safety", literally?

Dictatorship from an unelected, self appointed corporation is actual authoritarianism.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#95

Post by guappa »

rpmisms wrote: post #41
shiroiushi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a very free country, despite the claims to the contrary. Try drinking some beer in a public park while having a picnic and see what the police do to you. The main "freedom" in America is the ability of wealthy interests to screw over everyone.

And Europe isn't free if I want to own a gun. See, I can also do a single-factor analysis and come out ahead!

I know several people who own hunting rifles.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#96

Post by seszett »

nickpp wrote: post #90
seszett wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's funny that Apple is condemned here for applying inside their own platform the exact same strategy the EU is applying inside its tech market. The EU is a regulatory body and a union of democratic sovereign states. There is no comparison to be had whatsoever with a multinational for-profit company.

I actually live in the EU. We (the citizens) have zero control over that regulatory body. ZERO. None of those represent me and I have no way of influencing them in any way. While multinational companies?! I can actually stop being their customer and vote with my wallet. Much more democratic, IMHO.

I live in the EU too, and I've lived in other kinds of countries.

I don't think you realize what it is to have zero control over your government, and to be represented by no one. Your statements are grossly hyperbolic and a misrepresentation of the (real) failings of our democracies.

The whole point of the current discussion is how little power you actually have over Apple and other companies as a consumer. You cannot actually "vote with your wallet" by not buying any smartphone or not mowing your grass, it doesn't work.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#97

Post by nickpp »

nickburns wrote: post #91
nickpp wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually live in the EU. We (the citizens) have zero control over that regulatory body. ZERO. None of those represent me and I have no way of influencing them in any way. While multinational companies?! I can actually stop being their customer and vote with my wallet. Much more democratic, IMHO.

'voting with one's wallet' is a euphemism hardly to do with the democratic process in any real sense.

Maybe in theory. But in practice, I've enacted much more change in the society voting with my money than I ever did with my actual vote. In fact, I think my actual vote has never in my life counted. My choice never won, my candidate never got in.

I lived both under a communist dictatorship and democracy. My actual vote (well, my parent's, I was too young to vote then) was wasted under both.

But every time I purchase a product I know that I act as natural selection in an ecosystem of companies which cannot exist unless their actions are (partially) aligned with my interests. It works.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#98

Post by styren »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #61
nozzlegear wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This complaint boils down to “X is not very free because they have laws that differ from my own country due to very different cultures.” > The main "freedom" in America is the ability of wealthy interests to screw over everyone. Try as I might, I’m failing to picture which shadowy cabal of wealthy elite might be behind the laws preventing day drinking in parks, and how they might be benefiting from it.

There’s a very good case to be made that these kind of laws are selectively used as a tool to oppress minorities and the poor. So while it’s probably not the straightforward Mr. Burns picture you painted, it is absolutely one of many tools in a large toolbox employed in America to continue to maintain the existing power dynamic.

Do you mind making this "very good case" for this legal oppression to a non-American?

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#99

Post by nickpp »

nickburns wrote: post #93
nickpp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I don't have to worry if the newfangled clipboard manager my grandma was tricked into installing is sending the passwords she is copy&paste-ing to a server in China is wonderful.

consider grandparental controls for your nan. much better to have control than give it up. good god man, help her!

I have parental control for my children and they sidestep it every day. Suggesting that to my nan would get my ass kicked.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#100

Post by guappa »

lm28469 wrote: post #50
djaykay wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s steer clear of bitter partisanship and hyperbole, please. Freedom is a complex and nuanced concept.

Yet in all aggregated benchmarks the US never ends up on top

They're absolutely on top when they bomb you from above, for voting the wrong candidate at the elections.
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