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A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

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Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#61

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

nozzlegear wrote: post #46
shiroiushi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a very free country, despite the claims to the contrary. Try drinking some beer in a public park while having a picnic and see what the police do to you. The main "freedom" in America is the ability of wealthy interests to screw over everyone.

This complaint boils down to “X is not very free because they have laws that differ from my own country due to very different cultures.” > The main "freedom" in America is the ability of wealthy interests to screw over everyone. Try as I might, I’m failing to picture which shadowy cabal of wealthy elite might be behind the laws preventing day drinking in parks, and how they might be benefiting from it.

There’s a very good case to be made that these kind of laws are selectively used as a tool to oppress minorities and the poor. So while it’s probably not the straightforward Mr. Burns picture you painted, it is absolutely one of many tools in a large toolbox employed in America to continue to maintain the existing power dynamic.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#62

Post by sureMan »

hakdbha wrote: post #2

European iPhones will have more freedom than American iPhones. Amazing

In general, having lived and worked for extended (10 year + periods) in both the US and Europe. I find Europe have a lot more freedom, generally speaking. In some area's the US is better, and in other area's Europe is, but overall, I would tip the scale to Europe. American "freedom" have always felt to me like just pure marketing, however the same can be said for some European countries. For examples the Netherlands is not nearly as open minded and free, with lots of silly rules and regulations. However, places like Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy etc. are actually much better in my opinion.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#64

Post by [deleted] »

shiroiushi wrote: post #51
rvense wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To start: There absolutely should be limits to what kinds of devices can be sold. E.g., they should not be dangerous to operate. If you can't make a lawnmower that doesn't harm people, it's OK for governments or the EU to tell you that you can't sell lawnmowers. It's also OK to enforce standardization in e.g. electrical sockets and other basic infrastructure. This should not come down to "consumer preference" - _espe…

>An obviously absurd analogy is if a hammer company was somehow able to force you to use their brand of nails and wood and charge you per annum for the use of whatever you built. We did not have previous legislation to handle this situation, because simple physics means that can't happen. But with modern-day complicated tools, it can, and so some regulation of this sector is absolutely needed. Is it though? To extend…

[deleted]

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#65

Post by ben_w »

nickburns wrote: post #28
shiroiushi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, Apple does not have a monopoly, or anything approaching it. 50% marketshare is a lot for a single vendor, but it's not even close to 100%, and there are plenty of viable alternatives which apparently a lot of people don't want to consider because it isn't "cool" enough for them.

again, this has nothing to do with 'market share' (of smartphone devices i think you mean?)

Why not?

Nobody cares that Nintendo has a monopoly on games published for their hardware.

I think we would care if all the other console makers left the market.

I think this analogy applies to Android vs. iOS — and that's despite me being annoyed by Apple acting as morality police with regard to content, instead of limiting their rules to the security domain.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#66

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

shiroiushi wrote: post #16
nickburns wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at least some of Apple's chickens would finally appear to be coming home to roost, and us in-the-know Americans appreciate those in-the-know Europeans for leading the charge (on both this antitrust protection and separately, GDPR/privacy regulation as well).

The Europeans have done some good work on things like privacy, but as for Apple and their app store, it's really trivial to simply not buy an iPhone . There are lots and lots of other phones out there that aren't nearly as monopolistic in their treatment of users.

I’m pro voting with your wallet, but what the EU is doing is different. You pretty much need a smart phone these days. So it’s reasonable for phones to have greater scrutiny and require all phones to support the same bare minimum.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#67

Post by dagmx »

jocoda wrote: post #26

I have no interest in distributing IOS apps but I would like to be able to install and run my own code on IOS. Right now I can install my own code on my iPhone but if I don't have a Apple developer account Apple will remove apps after a week. And presumably when the account lapses, so does the install. How, if at all, are these Apple restrictions affected? Are we still stuck in the thrall of Apple or do we get more o…

> How, if at all, are these Apple restrictions affected?

They are completely unaffected by the DMA. The only exception might be if another store decides to allow sharing of signing keys across apps they host, however one bad actor could take down the entire set of keys used if flagged.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#68

Post by dagmx »

uyzstvqs wrote: post #44

AFAIK this is just Apple-approved apps, just through another app and servers. How does this change anything ? Apple still has full control over what apps users can install. There is no side-loading. They still need to approve every app on third party platforms. Or has Apple actually decided to remove app signing? They sure didn't when they announced this change.

These are Apple notarized apps. As with macOS, they still have to both be signed and go through some verification , but they don’t apply any of the other App Store rules to it.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#69

Post by nickpp »

rvense wrote: post #36
shiroiushi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Europeans have done some good work on things like privacy, but as for Apple and their app store, it's really trivial to simply not buy an iPhone . There are lots and lots of other phones out there that aren't nearly as monopolistic in their treatment of users.

To start: There absolutely should be limits to what kinds of devices can be sold. E.g., they should not be dangerous to operate. If you can't make a lawnmower that doesn't harm people, it's OK for governments or the EU to tell you that you can't sell lawnmowers. It's also OK to enforce standardization in e.g. electrical sockets and other basic infrastructure. This should not come down to "consumer preference" - _espe…

> Apple's total control of all aspects of the iPhone platform is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less technologically literate.

EU's attempted total control of all aspects of the tech platforms is harmful to consumers in a way that is not at all obvious, especially not to the less economically literate.

It's funny that Apple is condemned here for applying inside their own platform the exact same strategy the EU is applying inside its tech market.

> This should not come down to "consumer preference" - _especially_ not when the harms aren't obvious at the time of purchase.

"For your own safety" is how authoritarianism raises.

Re: A first look at Europe's alternative iPhone app stores

#70

Post by emsy »

jocoda wrote: post #26

I have no interest in distributing IOS apps but I would like to be able to install and run my own code on IOS. Right now I can install my own code on my iPhone but if I don't have a Apple developer account Apple will remove apps after a week. And presumably when the account lapses, so does the install. How, if at all, are these Apple restrictions affected? Are we still stuck in the thrall of Apple or do we get more o…

The one week limitation is so mind bogglingly stupid, it’s something only Apple could come up with.
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