Pretty great advertisement for Signal, as the sole cross-platform option in the PQC bucket. Does it seem likely they will match Apple here eventually?
In my experience, these markets can overlap but don’t necessarily always do so. I message everyone via iMessage, and while I enjoy the feeling of security from the blue bubble it’s not a must-have for me. Signal on the other hand seems like a must-have for many people living under oppressive regimes or whose data is significantly more valuable than mine. I am one data point, but that’s what I’ve noticed in my bubble.
iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
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Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#92Isn't all this post quantum stuff a little premature? The standards haven't settled. We don't even know if there is a possible quantum threat to cryptography yet. The more we work on the problem the less likely it seems. Last I heard we were 1 or 2 orders of magnitude away from physical noise performance that would make such a threat possible. Edit, added: Harvest now, decrypt later applies to any encrypted data. The…
The entities with the most to gain from such an advancement are not exactly known for publicizing their achievements.
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
To clear up the FUD here, this is only true if you turn on iCloud backups (many users do, but still) and don't turn on Advanced Data Protection. ADP is off by default because it means you'll lose all your backups if you forget your iCloud password. > it’s a platform designed to aid illegal government surveillance. Come on.
These are the defaults. You don’t need to turn on iCloud Backup, it’s already on. You don’t need to turn off Advanced Data Protection, it’s already off. Literally all you need to do is turn on a new iPhone and try to install any app. It will prompt for your Apple ID login (impossible to install apps without it) and will automatically enable iCloud, iCloud Backup, and iMessage (and will not enable ADP). https://www.fo…
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#94Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#95Did anyone figure out how MITM attacks are handled? How does the key transparency work and does it replace public key fingerprints?
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes but that would have meant giving up sales in exchange for actually backing up their words. They aren’t even going to use the developed encrypted RCS protocol. Apple, when it comes to their values, is all lip service. I have intimate experience here with them both openly lying and purposefully deceiving their user base in this case.
What word? They never said they'd open iMessage. FaceTime is what they intended (or at least Jobs announced the intent) to open, and then that got caught up in a patent dispute.
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#97Isn't all this post quantum stuff a little premature? The standards haven't settled. We don't even know if there is a possible quantum threat to cryptography yet. The more we work on the problem the less likely it seems. Last I heard we were 1 or 2 orders of magnitude away from physical noise performance that would make such a threat possible. Edit, added: Harvest now, decrypt later applies to any encrypted data. The…
>> Although quantum computers with this capability don’t exist yet, extremely well-resourced attackers can already prepare for their possible arrival by taking advantage of the steep decrease in modern data storage costs. The premise is simple: such attackers can collect large amounts of today’s encrypted data and file it all away for future reference. Even though they can’t decrypt any of this data today, they can retain it until they acquire a quantum computer that can decrypt it in the future, an attack scenario known as Harvest Now, Decrypt Later.
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#98Pretty great advertisement for Signal, as the sole cross-platform option in the PQC bucket. Does it seem likely they will match Apple here eventually?
In light of that Apple's message reads more like announcement that people who can afford iPhones will now have better security and privacy when they chat with themselves.
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Does anyone know if this is still vulnerable to the iCloud Backups problem? The only solution to that right now is for you and your contact to turn on Advanced Data Protection. This is such a strange two sentences as a "problem". E2EE security, as it says in the name, is about the protection of dara transmission between two trusted end points. That's it. What the trusted end points themselves choose to do with that…
It's not strange in the slightest. Apple deserves criticism until they fix this. They're going around claiming "end-to-end" and people don't understand that they are constantly handing over people's decrypted messages to law enforcement. It's misleading at best; I call it fraud. It's not as though Apple is merely failing to prevent a third party from breaking their end-to-end encryption here. Apple does it itself! iM…
It very much is strange.
>Apple deserves criticism until they fix this.
There's nothing to fix, or rather they already "fixed" it by offering an E2EE iCloud backup option to go along with local backups. As I said I think backups should simply be fully under owner control, but as it stands there is absolutely no need to backup without full key control should people wish. And even before that there was no need to use iCloud Backup. I never have. But that has tradeoffs, and it's perfectly reasonable people may choose to make different ones.
>They're going around claiming "end-to-end"
Correctly. By your twisted definition, there is no such thing as E2EE for any transport in existence because the ends might then do something you don't approve of with the data they own. HTTPS? Not E2EE. SSH? Not E2EE. WireGuard? Not E2EE. Which is completely ludicrous and a total perversion of the specific, important role E2EE plays.
>They already built end-to-end encryption for sensitive data types that is still recoverable from backups even if you lose all your devices and forget your iCloud account password
No, if you use their full E2EE options, any of them, and you lose all your devices, your password, and recovery key (including any backups you've chosen to make on your own), you are hosed for any of the data that is E2EE protected. Like, by definition? Because otherwise it wouldn't be E2EE! The fallback when ADP is not turned on and someone is using iCloud Backups is that Apple does have the keys, that's the point.
There is literally no way around this, it's just definitional. If Apple has, somewhere in the stack, the keys then it can be compelled (or choose) to share them or share access to the data, but they can also help the owner recover if all else is lost. If the owner has exclusive access to all keys then the owner has exclusive responsibility. You can certainly have the opinion that Apple should make that latter the default of only choice. I certainly have the opinion they should offer more choice period. But that's still all orthogonal to the transport mechanism. You can have ultra locked down encrypted devices, and then go to a plain vanilla HTTP website or use telnet for administration and any MITM can see what you're doing. There could be a rootkit on your system that's grabbing everything right out of memory. That doesn't mean random MITMs can see what you're doing either if the transport is E2EE. All of these are important components of the overall security picture, but they're all different ones.
>is reported by Reuters to be a secret compromise agreement with the FBI
Read your own articles you link. That's a 2020 piece on Apple dropping old plans for owner key control of all private iCloud data. But specifically following the outcry there two years later Apple introduced "advanced data protection" that does precisely what that article is complaining they didn't earlier [0]. It got lots of coverage at the time. They explicitly cover how data is stored afterwards [1]. So people can turn that on. The Reuters piece is obsolete.
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0: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/12/apple-advances-user-s...
Re: iMessage with PQ3 Cryptographic Protocol
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They aren’t even going to use the developed encrypted RCS protocol. End-to-end RCS encryption is via proprietary Google extension and not even available to other Android RCS messaging apps.
It was made available to Apple.