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The dating app paradox

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Re: The dating app paradox

#91
post #68

Dating apps by and far are quite useless. If you ever want to know how insidious they are, just download one, finish your profile, and swipe for 10 minutes a week. Since you are not an "active user" they will give you the most attractive people to swipe on. Every couple of days they will give you a "limited time" discount on gold or platinum or whatever. The push notifications are my favorite part, "you could be miss…

I'm always so confused by the advice to go to bookstores to meet people. What kind of bookstores do you guys go to where the customers talk with each other?

Re: The dating app paradox

#92

An actually good date is worth potentially hundreds of dollars. I’m surprised there isn’t an app which meets this need. Yes there is “The League” but even that is just a more exclusive Tinder. No, make a matchmaker app for high paying customers that uses human curation. $500 for 3 dates.

This kind of thing has actually existed for a long time. They predated dating sites and had even worked off paper as far as I understand.

The problem is they cost a lot more, and still had basically zero guarantee of any success. IIRC they were so expensive most single people would have trouble affording them.

I met my wife on eHarmony back when it was relatively new. I had tried one of the non-computerized matching services at some point and it was like 4x what Match or eHarmony cost and it was a pretty poor service.

I probably tried Match in 2000 for the first time? Had a lot of bad first dates on various sites between 2000-2005. Like 50+ people I never went on a second date with?

Back then tech wasn't cool. You could hit it off with someone and then they'd literally get up and leave when they found out your job.

I also tried speed dating, that was popular for a while. It was like a meetup where you talked to different people for 10 minutes each and then at the end checked off on a paper if you were interested in someone you met and if you matched with someone the organizer sent you each other's contact info.

I ended up trying all this cause when I finished college I moved to a new place. I basically knew no one. And at my first job I was like 23 and there was not a single other person under 30 in the division, it was even hard to find people to hang out with as friends. Working as an engineer was very different for me then.

Re: The dating app paradox

#93

If you're interested in this sort of thing, I can recommend creating an account on your dating app of choice with the opposite gender. The experiences are as different as night and day - and the different user groups have completely different requirements of the product. The article is interesting, but IMHO they've really missed the key asymmetries that make good dating apps so hard to build.

[flagged]

"Reproductive baseline value of females is obvious." This has some serious sexism/incel vibes.

Visual appearance can be very deceptive. There are plenty of very 'conventionally' attractive people who have less obvious health disorders ranging from infertility to women with high likelyhood of death during birth to mental disorders that would cause problems for raising a child.

Re: The dating app paradox

#94
post #78

I bet if you made dating apps paid upfront at a lower price than premium subscriptions (e.g. $10/month rather than $20/month on other apps), you'd still get a ton of users as people are willing to pay for a way to find love, and you'd get your much desired revenue. And you wouldn't have to deal as much with enshittification. The only other problem to solve is the 90/10 rule - where 90% of the women are only intereste…

Dating apps already have this problem, but a subscription really incentivizes the app to never let you find the right person. Because if you do, they lose a subscriber.

Re: The dating app paradox

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Reproductive baseline value of females is obvious." This has some serious sexism/incel vibes. Visual appearance can be very deceptive. There are plenty of very 'conventionally' attractive people who have less obvious health disorders ranging from infertility to women with high likelyhood of death during birth to mental disorders that would cause problems for raising a child.

Reproduction is sexist. Women bear, and contribute, the lions share of the fetal cost.

Not all healthy appearing prime age females can reproduce, obviously. Healthy, young adult, well nourished appearance is still a good indicator towards 9 months of reproductive value.

Re: The dating app paradox

#96
I'd like to bring back an article, more analytical on this paratox (the title, Why You Should Never Pay For Online Dating, speaks a lot), from the old and now dead OkCupid blog. Funnily, this post was deleted just after the acquisition from the Match Group in 2011.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100821041938/http://blog.okcup...

Latest discussion on this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33163930

Re: The dating app paradox

#97
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dating apps at 45 are a literal fucking cesspool. Funny I’m in almost the same situation and have found dating apps really helpful. I’ve been using them for a few months and it’s like a firehose of dates. It’s surprising because they get a bad rap, but I think I could go on a date every night if I wanted to. I haven’t found a new partner and am just a few months in but have met nice people and relationships. As an…

I think the 10M metro area helps your case, many folks don't have such a wide dating pool to pull from on the apps. Also, it depends on the culture of the area that you reside within. Here, in Minneapolis, folks are tight lipped, tight knit, and keep everything close to the chest, but they continue to hold some of those dating app nuances in high regard. I'm really happy that, for you, it works. I also had a steady s…

That's a choice you make, though, isn't it? If you get that many matches, be more selective. Everybody wins that way.

Re: The dating app paradox

#98
Committed relationships found by judging other people's personality and looks are completely unnatural for human beings, and a result of conditioning by society.

The natural state is living immersed in a place where other beings are and spontaneously interacting with them without a developed ego/personality filtering the interaction, as the closest relatives to human (chimpanzees and bonobos) do.

This makes the socially-conditioned relationship model very unstable, since such a relationship will only work if, as long as and to the extent that the conditioned beliefs happen to match the other person and their beliefs.

Since the conditioned beliefs are fundamentally false (because they are of the form "you will be happy if X" but happiness is actually the absence of any such belief) they are unstable and they will mutate once their falsehood is partially realized, and this process, along with viral cultural propagation, also creates many different conditioned mindsets that make matching and intimacy very challenging.

So the problems with dating apps are just a very specific effect of what is the fundamental nature of human beings and reality.

Re: The dating app paradox

#99
post #47

It's only a paradox until you realize that dating apps would shoot themselves in the foot with such a user-hostile model, trashing their brand. Hanlon's Razor directs us to the simpler explanation, which is that 90% of people on dating markets stay on dating markets; for which there are many, many highly personalized reasons. No dating app can fix its users' mindsets. There are three rules on dating apps, and they ha…

I found my wife on Hinge in a suburban-bordering-rural part of the country (so not a lot of people on the apps in absolute terms) right before its acquisition and actually had better success broadly speaking on Bumble. The trick was, unfortunately, to pay for it. Have super likes or whatever they're called. Pay for the membership to see people who like me without having to swipe. Pay to boost my profile so more people see it and potentially like it. The worst part (for me), actually spend time curating photos and writing thoughtful answers to things - the former being much more important than the latter. Even with all of this I'd hit nights where I had seemingly swiped one way or the other on every eligible bachelorette within 100 miles. Maybe I had.

Unfortunately I don't have any reproducible or generalizable advice from meeting my wife. She was my only match on Hinge, neither of us paid for it, and we moved to phone conversation and dates within 48 hours.

Re: The dating app paradox

#100

Originally responding to a flagged comment that stated you were weak for not talking to people in person: You’re not wrong, but the in-person dating pool is small and the stakes are high. I am very recently divorced, dating single for the first time in nearly 25 years after finding my wife stole $300K from the family and had been carrying on an affair for 18 months while I thought our finances and love were at an all…

You're not wrong, but I believe there are things people can do to find better "fishing holes" if they think outside the box.

I grew up in Los Angeles and have never actually felt at home here. Should it be any surprise that my experience dating here has been poor? I'm certainly not a hottie, but I am pretty sure I'm not ugly, either. Given all the examples of male attractiveness I've seen, I think I'm a low 7 on the decile scale. Most women out here seem to only consider 5 - 7s "settle material", but most women aren't above a 7 either, so physical attractiveness doesn't universally explain struggles with dating, not that it isn't a big part of it.

My hypothesis is that people underrate the difference in dating culture across cities and countries. I've been to enough cities and a few countries to realize that, actually, people aren't the same everywhere; cities all have different cultures with varying attitudes and levels of connection to reality. LA is fundamentally built on adults playing pretend for a living, so if you're a more analytically minded person, this is a poor place to be fishing for dates. A city built upon a different industry or values education may be a better place to find people you're compatible with.

What I think most people don't think about is how the male-to-female ratio in a city may have an impact on the dating experience. I recently did an experiment where I used Census data to examine which cities had more males than females and which ones had the opposite, narrowing the field down to just single people (never married, divorced, or widowed) between 25 and 34, and the results were quite interesting. While it's not super common for cities ever have superficially extreme imbalances, most major cities have significantly more single men in this cohort than single women.

For instance, in Los Angeles, my query over the ACS5 data from the last Census shows that Los Angeles has a male-to-female ratio of 1.18; this means that there's 18% more men than women in that city. In a major city, that's a lot of active competition.

Recently, I've been considering spending time in Boston because I already like that city and think it may be a better fit for me in the long run. In contrast to Los Angeles, Boston has a male-to-female singles 25-34 ratio of 1. Although it would be nice from a man's perspective for there to be more women than men, I think there's reason to believe that, for some men, they may suffer less competition in a city like that.

If you are curious, reader, the only major cities in the United States that I found to have significantly more women than men are Rochester NY, Cincinnati OH, Richmond VA, and District Of Columbia (having the lowest ratio at 0.89). There's a handful of other cities with a ratio Palmdale CA to find dates.

I don't have the research on hand (I'll post it here if I find it), but I remember reading about how the sex ratio impacts the way that women approach dating; if they have an abundance of options, in the case of more males than females, women are likely to be more selective and use long-term dating strategy (possibly paralysis-by-analysis or playing the numbers game), whereas they are less selective and think in the shorter term when there are fewer men. This is likely true at least to some extent in the case of the reverse gender. I'm just speaking from my perspective as a guy and the knowledge I've gathered.

Don't be like me and spend too many years fishing in the wrong hole. Find one with fewer rods already in it. ba dum tssshhhh

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