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Signs that it's time to leave a company

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Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#91

Post by mxkopy »

iamthirsty wrote: post #37
velcrovan wrote: post #4

Other signs for me personally: * Sales schedules dictate product development timelines rather than the other way around * Leadership thinks about practical operational/logistics issues only when forced to * The importance of "culture" is brought up without fail when talking about working from the office, and never at other times * Leadership is fond of setting goals and deathly allergic to providing incentives

I agree with all but the last, as I think it's debatable. > Leadership is fond of setting goals and deathly allergic to providing incentives Goals are good, in any way, as long as their portioned right. And at the level most people this is targeted to are working at, is the rather large salary supposed to be the incentive?

It happens at lower levels too, when the company is too broke to give bonuses

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#92

Post by pacomerh »

paulddraper wrote: post #54
lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

People collaborate easier in person. Travel is a downside.

I don't collaborate better in person.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#93

Post by vlaxx »

lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

> I don't understand this fascination with central offices.

It's not about you, it's about them. What they control, what they own, what they have.

They are in love with the feeling of dominance in a room full of people. They love to see the minions that they command. Its about being able to visualize and understand the domain that they control.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#94

Post by closeparen »

ryandrake wrote: post #61
dilyevsky wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because you will absolutely make way more money by leaving That is a pre-2023 advice my friend, unless you’ve been there like 10yrs or an ai researcher or something

It's pre-2023 thinking and early-career thinking. Without job title growth, eventually everyone plateaus. There's only so much any company is willing to pay a non-manager individual contributor worker bee. Early in your career you can go from say $45K to $60K to $100K like it's nothing, but the more you job hop, it'll start looking more like $110K -> $120K -> $125K -> $128K and so on, asymptotically approaching your…

Note: the national median for software developers is $127k, don't let anyone sell you that as some kind of career ceiling. Especially if you live in New York, Seattle, or the Bay Area.

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#st

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#96

Post by teach »

JacobThreeThree wrote: post #57
hobs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the ownership is capturing a huge multiple of your effort and you could go somewhere else to capture more of the money you create? Let's invert it - why should I just make my boss more money forever while I get the same cut?

>Let's invert it - why should I just make my boss more money forever while I get the same cut? It sounds like you're assuming OP is getting a small cut. What if his salary is generous and there's a profit sharing bonus pool every year? The idea that in every career one needs to be continuously promoted to new positions doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion.

Nailed it.

In fact, individual contributor salaries were public and constituted ~80% of the company's entire annual budget. Rent, utilities and all management salaries were contained in the remaining 20%.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#97

Post by d0gsg0w00f »

kabdib wrote: post #21

Signs that I've seen before leaving: * There are more VPs than there are restrooms. * The free coffee and soda is no more. * Engineers are co-opted as salespeople ("... and why is the project late?").

+1 for removal of snacks and coffee as a reliable canary

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#98

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

29athrowaway wrote: post #72
paulddraper wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People collaborate easier in person. Travel is a downside.

Many of the largest software projects in history have been implemented by remote workers. Like the Linux kernel. But if you require to read people's reactions and body language and try to figure out if they are telling the truth, or brag about your socioeconomic status or appearance, or if you need to assert dominance over others, or do social engineering like mirroring other's movements, then face to face is perhaps…

You're summing up a pretty wide spectrum of things as "distrust". If a junior engineer says they understand what I'm asking for and will deliver it in 2 weeks, but actually they don't fully understand and will deliver half of it in 3 weeks, I wouldn't typically characterize that as them lying or being untrustworthy. But it's a problem that's a lot easier to detect and solve in person. (It's also, not coincidentally, a problem that Linux kernel devs generally don't need to worry about - there's no Linux Dev Inc. whose next big contract will fall through if a project doesn't finish on time.)

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#99

Post by worewood »

29athrowaway wrote: post #72
paulddraper wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People collaborate easier in person. Travel is a downside.

Many of the largest software projects in history have been implemented by remote workers. Like the Linux kernel. But if you require to read people's reactions and body language and try to figure out if they are telling the truth, or brag about your socioeconomic status or appearance, or if you need to assert dominance over others, or do social engineering like mirroring other's movements, then face to face is perhaps…

I agree with you, except the last sentence, which may vary from place to place.

My office is very friendly and people have very good humour. Which is good for socializing but for work, it's tough because so many interruptions and we waste a lot of time "talking about the weather". I am way more productive working at home.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#100

Post by NegativeK »

pacomerh wrote: post #92
paulddraper wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People collaborate easier in person. Travel is a downside.

I don't collaborate better in person.

I do, probably because of my particular flavor of strong introversion.

What's the solution to different people benefiting from different work styles?

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