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Google Imagen 2

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Re: Google Imagen 2

#91
post #81
post #77

I think the competition for text to image services is over and open source, stable diffusion won. It doesn't matter how detailed (or whatever counts as "better") corporate text-to-image products get, stable diffusion is good enough which really is good enough. Unlike the corporate offerings, open source txt2img doesn't have random restrictions (no its not just porn at this point) and actually allows for additional sc…

I also think it's over, but I don't see how Stable Diffusion won anything. If something, I see people flocking en masse to dalle3/google/amazon/whatever API is easy to integrate in one side, and consumers paying for Adobe & Canva in the other. Stable Diffusion is the Linux-on-the-desktop of diffusion models IMO (I agree w/ your comment on trusting Google - pretty sure they'll just phase this off eventually anyway, so…

I don't think there's numbers that show "people flocking" to paid vs free open source offerings since running your own stable diffusion server/desktop isn't showing up on a sale's report.

Linux entered the market at a time when paid alternatives were fully established and concentrated, servicing users/companies for years who became used to working with them. No paid txt2img offering comes anywhere close to market dominance for image generation. They don't offer anything that isn't available with free alternatives (they actually offer less) and are highly restrictive in comparison. Anyone who is doing anything beyond disguised DALLE/Imagen clients, has absolutely no incentives to use a paid service.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#92
post #77

I think the competition for text to image services is over and open source, stable diffusion won. It doesn't matter how detailed (or whatever counts as "better") corporate text-to-image products get, stable diffusion is good enough which really is good enough. Unlike the corporate offerings, open source txt2img doesn't have random restrictions (no its not just porn at this point) and actually allows for additional sc…

> Why bother using a product from a company that is notorious for failing to commit to most of their services, when you can run something which produces output that is pretty close (and maybe better) and is free to run and change and train? Because it costs $0.02 per image instead of $1000 on a graphics card and endless buggering around to set up.

$0.02 per image is crazy expensive! Running a higher tier GPU on Runpod is a fraction of the cost (especially if you're pricing per image).

*it also takes like 15 mins to setup up (this includes loading the models).

Re: Google Imagen 2

#93
post #77

I think the competition for text to image services is over and open source, stable diffusion won. It doesn't matter how detailed (or whatever counts as "better") corporate text-to-image products get, stable diffusion is good enough which really is good enough. Unlike the corporate offerings, open source txt2img doesn't have random restrictions (no its not just porn at this point) and actually allows for additional sc…

Google has as good a track record as anyone else for not shutting down Cloud services. Consumer services are a different category of product.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#94
post #81
post #77

I think the competition for text to image services is over and open source, stable diffusion won. It doesn't matter how detailed (or whatever counts as "better") corporate text-to-image products get, stable diffusion is good enough which really is good enough. Unlike the corporate offerings, open source txt2img doesn't have random restrictions (no its not just porn at this point) and actually allows for additional sc…

I also think it's over, but I don't see how Stable Diffusion won anything. If something, I see people flocking en masse to dalle3/google/amazon/whatever API is easy to integrate in one side, and consumers paying for Adobe & Canva in the other. Stable Diffusion is the Linux-on-the-desktop of diffusion models IMO (I agree w/ your comment on trusting Google - pretty sure they'll just phase this off eventually anyway, so…

I would totally agree. I’ve tried to setup stable diffusion a couple times, and even as a professional software engineer working in AI, every time I fail to get good results, get interrupted, lose track, and end up back at DALLE. I’ve seen what it can do, I know it can be amazing, but like Linux it has some serious usability issues

Re: Google Imagen 2

#95
post #77

I think the competition for text to image services is over and open source, stable diffusion won. It doesn't matter how detailed (or whatever counts as "better") corporate text-to-image products get, stable diffusion is good enough which really is good enough. Unlike the corporate offerings, open source txt2img doesn't have random restrictions (no its not just porn at this point) and actually allows for additional sc…

Why stable diffusion won? Dalle3 and this is miles ahead in understanding scene and put correct text at the right place.

This makes the image much more usable without editing.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#96
post #64

I love being Canadian - "Not Available in Canada Due To Regulatory Uncertainty"

Translation is that the government engaged in a shakedown of Google, on behalf of Bell and Rogers: Bill c-18. It was disgusting and corrupt and I’m glad that Google and Facebook pushed back. This has recently been resolved though, with a compromised deal, so hopefully these services will soon be available here

Unfortunately Google caved and are giving away 100 million dollars. I wish they had a spine like Meta. I generally despise both companies (Meta more than Google) but the enemy of my enemy can be my friend at arm's length.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#97

I love being Canadian - "Not Available in Canada Due To Regulatory Uncertainty"

Same here. Nothing AI related from Google is available in Canada. This sucks. To add insult to injury, they have nice press releases and demos of their latest AI but aren't easily accessible or available until next year. The press and Wallstreet love gob it up and the stock rises. Is it just for them?

Anthropic doesn't allow Canadians access to their AI services either. I haven't had the chance to check out if I can get access to Claude via Amazon Bedrock - but that might be an option. My company is already on AWS and currently they are thinking of dipping their toes into using AI for our software next year, so I might get to play around with it yet. It'll probably either be OpenAI integration directly, or going with something that's available as a hosted service on AWS.

OpenAI services are available in Canada but as an individual, $27/mo for ChatGPT Plus and then paying per use for the API is kinda a hard sell for me.

I'm needing a hardware refresh soon, so I think i'm just going to run the open source stuff locally once I get around to figuring out how to set that all up.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are two completely different models from different groups, converging on what looks like the exact same person? Number 1 and 3 are eerily similar. I don't understand.

https://nonint.com/2023/06/10/the-it-in-ai-models-is-the-dat...

That's an incredibly interesting observation. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#99

I don't really care about these product images. The real test is whether it can produce pictures of hands with five fingers.

Allegedly Imagen 2 is indeed better at producing hands: https://deepmind.google/technologies/imagen-2/

> Imagen 2’s dataset and model advances have delivered improvements in many of the areas that text-to-image tools often struggle with, including rendering realistic hands and human faces and keeping images free of distracting visual artifacts.

Re: Google Imagen 2

#100
post #43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, Google has a unusually large number of engineers who are happy to coast, and would actively avoid taking on anything important. That seems more of an issue to me compared to middle management bloat.

I've seen this claim thrown around a few times but haven't really seen any evidence that it's true, beyond a few unconvincing anecdotes.

It's true, was there through 2016-2023.

People just have different definitions of what coasting means. In general don't think "doing nothing" or "avoiding work" think "add certainty to process + decision making like everyone else does", and much more importantly "avoiding friction because as soon as there's even a little bit, people leverage it"

More detail on what causes this:

- processes become elongated through what Steve Yegge called cookie-licking, more specifically, anyone above line level doing "I am the 10th person who needs to give a green light for this to happen"

- the elongated process taking so long with that many people that some people lose interest or move on or forget they already approved it

- business disruptions (ex. now Sundar told VP told VP told VP who told director to add GenAI goals)

- bad managers are __really__ bad at BigCo, there's so much insulation from reality due to the money printer, and cultural bias towards "meh everythings good!"

- managers trying to get stuff done rely on people who slavishly overwork to do the minimum possible for their _direct manager_ to be happy

- only needing to keep your manager happy, and your manager being focused on deploying limited resources, creates a suspicious untrusting atmosphere. The amount of othering and trash-talking is incredibly disturbing.

- _someone_ has to slavishly overwork on any given project because there's very little planning. due to the "meh everythings good!" inclination, coupled to software being pretty hard to plan accurately anyway. so what's the point of planning it all?

- newly minted middle managers are used to clinging onto anything their manager cares about and overworking, so they end up being a massive bottleneck for their reports. New middle manager on my team's profile page looked like a military dictator's medals, 6 projects they were "leading", 1 of which they were actually working on and actually got done.

- The "coaster" realizes "if I go outside the remit of what my manager asked for, they A) won't care because they didn't ask for it B) which exposes me to non-zero friction because they'll constantly be wondering why I'm doing it at all C) I'll have to overwork because they won't help plan or distribute work because it was my idea to go beyond the bare minimum D) its very very hard to get promoted, especially based on work my manager didn't explicitly ask for E) the cultural bias here is strongly towards everything is okay all the time no matter what, so any visible friction will be attributed to me personally being difficult

And that's _before_ you account for the genuine sociopathy you see increasingly as you move up the ladder.

Anecdote:

I waited _3 years_ to launch work I had done and 3 VPs asked for. Year 3, it came to a head b/c one of the 3 was like "wtf is going on!?" My team's product manager outright pretended our org's VP didn't want it, had 0 interest in it, after first pretending it didn't _come up at all_ in a meeting arranged to talk about it.

Within a couple weeks this was corrected by yet another VP meeting where they called in the PM's boss' boss' boss and the VP was like "fuck yeah I want this yesterday", but engineering middle manager and PM closed ranks to blame it on me. Engineering went with "Where's the plan / doc!?!?" (I won't even try to explain this, trust me, after 3 yrs they knew and there were docs), and both pretended I was interrupting meetings regularly (I was the only one who ever wrote anything on the agenda, and once we hit year 2.5, I was very careful to only speak when called upon because it was clear it was going to build up to this, as they were assigned the new shiny year-long project to rush a half-assed version of Cupertino's latest, as they were every year).

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