No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being • Hacker News Board

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#91

Post by SkyBelow » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

The claim (per title, likely not from the scientists themselves): No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development.

The study: Self reported screen time does not correlate to functional brain organization profiles related to maladaptive functioning as measured by MRI.

There is a lot more in the study, but unless one is already well versed in this field, it will take a great deal of time to parse and understand the data and the limitations of the methodology they used.

I think the press release is too strongly worded given what I've been able to understand of the study.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#92

Post by vidarh » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:23 PM UTC

chefandy wrote: post #70

babyshake wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can cite plenty of anecdotal evidence of what seems to be addiction. Major temper tantrums and hyperventilating when screens are taken away. Not to mention, zoning out for an hour or two watching unboxing videos or whatever on YouTube.

> I can cite plenty of anecdotal evidence of what seems to be addiction. Major temper tantrums and hyperventilating when screens are taken away. But might kids who never had access to screens react similarly if you took away their prized Legos, comic books, bike, art supplies, or other immersive toy? It doesn't seem like dramatic temper tantrums over losing a prized activity are new,and neither do obsessions over obj…

To me, growing up, my computer was the tool I used to access almost all of my interests and much of my social contact. Taking away my screen time would've been the equivalent of locking me in my room without any toys or access to any social contact. I find it bizarre that people think tantrums if they take away a basic tool is evidence of anything.

That does of course not mean that it's not sometimes an indication that some kids are relying on it too much, but the level of reasoning on this subject seems to regularly be mired in hyperbole.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#93

Post by avgDev » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

diplodinkus wrote: post #82

avgDev wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being able to focus on 'boring' tasks is bad. When I had an addiction to social media, I could not enjoy 'slow' things. I also felt anxiety and depression. After detoxing I am again able to enjoy the 'slow' things, like taking time to learn and resisting instant gratification hits. Watching a movie sometimes requires 'getting into it' before you can really appreciate it. Most of our jobs are repetitive tasks. Eve…

If everyone found joy in boring tasks, wed never advance as a society. All progress is through laziness.

Your statement is not logical as all progress definitely is not through laziness.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#94

Post by sickofparadox » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:33 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #31

sickofparadox wrote: post #10

Science reporting does itself a massive disservice publishing headlines like this, especially when the real takeaway is just "MRIs cannot see the damage done to children's brains with screens". Even other children know that the "ipad kids" are different and damaged in some way, my young cousin and his friends call them bots.

Maybe. Or maybe the causal relationship doesn't go in the direction you assume without evidence, and maybe your cousin is just intolerant.

I can completely believe that whatever damage is being done to children by screens does not show up on an MRI scan. Having never even seen one in person, I have no assumptions about what that would look like, if the damage even manifested physically. What is plainly obvious and would take much more than a self-reported survey to disabuse me of, is the idea that excessive electronic usage screws up kids' brains, making them highly prone to anti-social behavior and likely some form of screentime addiction.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#95

Post by Jensson » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

onemoresoop wrote: post #23

Dubious at best. If one has children they notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time. And screen time is as addictive to children as it is to adults, and we should consider the effects they have on their developing brains.

> notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time

That is negative for the parents state of mind, not the child's cognitive development.

> And screen time is as addictive to children

Being addicted to an activity doesn't necessarily hurt your cognitive development.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#96

Post by it_citizen » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #66

dudul wrote: post #56

A few kids in my 8yo son's class don't use screens. No TVs, phones, games, etc. Others are already binge watching StarWars, Minecraft, etc. The differences between these 2 groups are enormous in terms of their play, their attention during lessons, their overall academic achievements. I will never believe a study telling me that spending 2 hours watching star wars is better for a kid than going to build a fort in the…

You're assuming causality, and assuming less screen time would mean screen time would be replaced by activities you see as better. One possible reason why that logic might not hold might e.g. simply be that restrictions on screen time might correlate with more involved parents.

Not sure why you are being downvoted. I can see a pretty strong correlation between the parents who have the will to not simplify their lives by putting kids in front of the TV and parents who will do more than the average parent for their kids to be well-educated.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#97

Post by tanseydavid » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #95

onemoresoop wrote: post #23

Dubious at best. If one has children they notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time. And screen time is as addictive to children as it is to adults, and we should consider the effects they have on their developing brains.

> notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time That is negative for the parents state of mind, not the child's cognitive development. > And screen time is as addictive to children Being addicted to an activity doesn't necessarily hurt your cognitive development.

>> Being addicted to an activity doesn't necessarily hurt your cognitive development.

This kind of minimizing is a standard part of how addicts rationalize their behavior to themselves.

Oftentimes it is not directly the addictive behavior that is the major problem. Instead the primary problem for many addicts winds up being all of the things that they ARE NOT doing while they engage in their addiction.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#98

Post by dfee » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 7:09 PM UTC

usgroup wrote: post #62

dfee wrote: post #55

Not all screen time is equal. Though, all screen time may have negative consequences. My third grade son spends time daily on typing and Khan Academy (iMac). He spends an additional few minutes reading about sports (public school issued iPad). His video game exposure is quite limited. Though I have a PS5, he rarely plays it (once per week, perhaps – of course Madden and MLB The Show). He spends a lot of time either a…

It isn’t obvious to me why you think iPhones and iPads have retarded some of the cohort? Can you expand on the causality of it and what ages are you referring to ?

I can’t tell you why. I just see a correlation. Age group up to nine.

I’ll add: it’s especially notable in ability to focus and communicate. This is my take knowing and coaching many of these kids in youth sports.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#99

Post by Jensson » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 7:10 PM UTC

tanseydavid wrote: post #97

Jensson wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time That is negative for the parents state of mind, not the child's cognitive development. > And screen time is as addictive to children Being addicted to an activity doesn't necessarily hurt your cognitive development.

>> Being addicted to an activity doesn't necessarily hurt your cognitive development. This kind of minimizing is a standard part of how addicts rationalize their behavior to themselves. Oftentimes it is not directly the addictive behavior that is the major problem. Instead the primary problem for many addicts winds up being all of the things that they ARE NOT doing while they engage in their addiction.

But screen time involves an extremely diverse set of activities, you aren't addicted to a single thing you are just addicted to efficiency. Not sure why that would necessarily be bad, efficiency helps you get the information you need or want faster.

Another activity that is efficient is driving a car instead of walking. Do you ban cars for your kid and force it to walk for an hour to school? If not, why do you think one kind of efficiency is fine but not the other? Surely walking to school would be way more positive on your child than banning screens? I'm sure your kid would scream and complain if you forced the kid to walk everywhere, because the kid knows there is an easier way and that will limit the activities and experiences the kid can partake in. If you live in a non-car centric area just think public transit instead of cars, banning efficiency works the same.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#100

Post by Turing_Machine » Tue, Nov 21, 2023, 7:13 PM UTC

usgroup wrote: post #20

I feel it’s obvious in some respect that if “screen time” means TikTok or YouTube binging then there’s probably something more developmentally useful you could be doing. That screen time might lead to a maladaptive brain as evidence by MRI, strikes me as an extreme effect. I’d be curious to know what else this experimental design had been applied to in the past and whether it’s at all commensurate with this purpose.

Even within the realm of (say) YouTube, I'd expect a difference between "Khan Academy math lesson" and "Funniest Kicks In the Gonads Compilation".

I agree with others here (and elsewhere) that "screen time" is way too coarse-grained to be useful. It's as if people back in the '60s were doing research on "paper time", lumping looking at porn magazines or pop star fan magazines together with reading physics textbooks.