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No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

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Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#71

Post by DanHulton »

diplodinkus wrote: post #65
usgroup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

But why is that so bad? Movies retell the same story with the same beats over and over again. I think we should be more concerned about people who can focus on something repetitive for extended periods. What's wrong with them?

Maybe you should try expanding your cinematic repertoire, if that's the impression you have of movies?

I'm saying this genuinely, not to make a snide point or anything. There are some really good movies out there that aren't just "the same beats over and over again." If, say, you're only watching big studio blockbusters, try branching out into smaller dramas, that kind of thing.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#72

Post by zer00eyz »

usgroup wrote: post #49
rickdeckard wrote: post #39

Does this factor in the impact of constant instant-gratification of whatever is done on that screen? Because (subjectively) I can see how children with lots of screen-time have a harder time with activities which do not lead to immediate dopamine release, like reading, listening to a story, drawing, etc., while children with low/no screen-time can derive satisfaction already from the process of doing something. -- Ed…

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

As someone who doesn't abuse the phone, and mostly works on a computer I have this same issue. It is rare for me to be able to enjoy a movie.

Im of the opinion that the quality of content is hot garbage on a good day and actual entertainment is rare now.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#73

Post by lo_zamoyski »

evilduck wrote: post #54
SirMaster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying it applies to every child. But if it affects enough of them then it's a problem worth looking into.

Isn’t looking into it exactly what they did with the 12,000 kids in the study linked? OP’s kid could have major depression for all we know, their anecdotes about their kids being extrapolated to all kids is absurd.

We shouldn't confuse observation with cause.

If the OP genuinely observed such changes in behavior, then that's different than ascribing a direct cause to screen time. Perhaps some children respond differently. Perhaps other factors play out by means of screen time. Perhaps what their kids are doing on their phones is different (we shouldn't forget the affect of the content on the screen). Who knows, and from a parenting point of view, it may not matter all that much when deciding what to do. If reducing screen time improves symptoms, then that's a good start, at least.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#74

Post by dudul »

vidarh wrote: post #66
dudul wrote: post #56

A few kids in my 8yo son's class don't use screens. No TVs, phones, games, etc. Others are already binge watching StarWars, Minecraft, etc. The differences between these 2 groups are enormous in terms of their play, their attention during lessons, their overall academic achievements. I will never believe a study telling me that spending 2 hours watching star wars is better for a kid than going to build a fort in the…

You're assuming causality, and assuming less screen time would mean screen time would be replaced by activities you see as better. One possible reason why that logic might not hold might e.g. simply be that restrictions on screen time might correlate with more involved parents.

No there is causality when a group is hitting each other with sticks, pretending to be jedi knights, and the other is setting up a "fake" farm with some complex "economy" between the baker, the blacksmith, the tailor, etc.

There is causality when all the kid can draw involves violence with vague shapes, while others can draw complex sceneries.

Where I do agree is that at the end of the day, the screen is not really the issue, it's what you watch on it.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#75

Post by red-iron-pine »

rickdeckard wrote: post #64
usgroup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

Indeed. I guess measurement of your "brain function or well-being" might not show any difference, but the way you perceive those activities might have changed completely. I have a similar observation regarding Movies. Funny how this can be improved by watching a movie in cinema, a purpose of cinema which silently grows while the original purpose of "better audio/video experience" is fading...

there is James Cameron quote, something to the effect of "a movie ticket is a contract between you and the director that you're going to give this uninterrupted attention"

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#76

Post by gspencley »

DanHulton wrote: post #71
diplodinkus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is that so bad? Movies retell the same story with the same beats over and over again. I think we should be more concerned about people who can focus on something repetitive for extended periods. What's wrong with them?

Maybe you should try expanding your cinematic repertoire, if that's the impression you have of movies? I'm saying this genuinely, not to make a snide point or anything. There are some really good movies out there that aren't just "the same beats over and over again." If, say, you're only watching big studio blockbusters, try branching out into smaller dramas, that kind of thing.

I think what the person you are replying to might be alluding to is "The Seven Basic Plots" theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Basic_Plots

"Beat for beat" might be a bit unfair but even then there are traditional structures such as "The Hero's Journey" that are commonly used by writer's both in and out of Hollywood.

That said, even if structure and a finite number of plots is true, there is still a wide variety of artistic potential from characterization to setting to art style.

I will say, however, that the older I get the more "familiar" things feel. Even when I'm watching non-blockbuster stuff. I'm pretty sure this is just the result of having watched more movies throughout my life. My standards are getting higher and my pattern recognition toolset is widening. And since I have dabbled in writing myself, I tend to recognize formulas when they are being applied ... even if the movie is not a cookie-cutter Hollywood factory-produced summer blockbuster.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#77

Post by upsidesinclude »

nevinera wrote: post #41
onemoresoop wrote: post #23

Dubious at best. If one has children they notice quite visibly that screen time makes their children more agitated during the days they have screen time. And screen time is as addictive to children as it is to adults, and we should consider the effects they have on their developing brains.

When science doesn't match your personal observations, that doesn't make the science wrong. It also doesn't make your personal observations wrong - it usually (in my experience) means that you're measuring/observing different things (assuming you're reasonably intelligent, which I am doing). In this case, "cognitive development and well being" are complex concepts that probably do not map exactly (or maybe even gross…

Not "wrong", dubious.

It is quite appropriate to call such declarations dubious.

Your explanation is fine, however, this 'no evidence' refrain that has been used to mislead the public has gone on long enough. At this point when that is in print the assumption may as well be the opposite.

Every sensible person can see that children are not developing as they have in the past and the clear major difference is full attention grabbing effect of media. But no, no, it isn't the 'screen time'

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#78

Post by nevinera »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #77
nevinera wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When science doesn't match your personal observations, that doesn't make the science wrong. It also doesn't make your personal observations wrong - it usually (in my experience) means that you're measuring/observing different things (assuming you're reasonably intelligent, which I am doing). In this case, "cognitive development and well being" are complex concepts that probably do not map exactly (or maybe even gross…

Not "wrong", dubious. It is quite appropriate to call such declarations dubious. Your explanation is fine, however, this 'no evidence' refrain that has been used to mislead the public has gone on long enough. At this point when that is in print the assumption may as well be the opposite. Every sensible person can see that children are not developing as they have in the past and the clear major difference is full atte…

If you'd like to analyze their approaches to call the study 'dubious', I won't argue with you (it is; they are not strong ones). But making that assertion solely on the position that your personal observations of your own children disagree puts you in the same category as my wife's friend that rejects vaccines because her mom took one and still got covid. That's not how individual observations interact with science.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#79

Post by avgDev »

diplodinkus wrote: post #65
usgroup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

But why is that so bad? Movies retell the same story with the same beats over and over again. I think we should be more concerned about people who can focus on something repetitive for extended periods. What's wrong with them?

Not being able to focus on 'boring' tasks is bad.

When I had an addiction to social media, I could not enjoy 'slow' things. I also felt anxiety and depression. After detoxing I am again able to enjoy the 'slow' things, like taking time to learn and resisting instant gratification hits.

Watching a movie sometimes requires 'getting into it' before you can really appreciate it.

Most of our jobs are repetitive tasks. Even something like being a race car driver is repetitive and 'boring'. In order to be fast you have to practice the same track layout hundreds of times to find the optimal racing line and braking points. Without boring there is no glory.

Re: No evidence screen time is negative for child cognitive development, well-being

#80

Post by hotpotamus »

zer00eyz wrote: post #72
usgroup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children and everyone else … I can’t watch a movie anymore without either reading something or playing chess at the same time just to up the frequency of those hits.

As someone who doesn't abuse the phone, and mostly works on a computer I have this same issue. It is rare for me to be able to enjoy a movie. Im of the opinion that the quality of content is hot garbage on a good day and actual entertainment is rare now.

I feel this as well (which isn't to say it's true I suppose) about most content, but yes; especially modern movies. It seems like it's nearly all formulaic drivel made to satisfy some algorithm. Of course, it's also possible that's just me getting older - I can imagine some old man making a similar complaint. But I can't help but think there really is something going on.

I recently watched Willem Dafoe in "Inside" and while it's not really a cinematic experience that could be called pleasant, I was actually satisfied at the end of it because it actually felt creative.

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