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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

91–100 of 250 posts

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#91
post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

As far I know there is no known carcinogenicity risk with carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide or sulphur dioxide so what are you referring to?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#92
post #58
post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

Yeah, the obvious solution is to make smaller lighter vehicles. We’ve built EVs in the image of ICE vehicles, so they’re big and heavy.

There are a lot of people who are driving an EV with several hundred miles of range to work less than 20 miles away. That extra order of magnitude of battery capacity is a lot of extra weight. Imagine I’d you could instead rent a battery trailer for those occasional long trips?

I think e-bikes are the way to go, tho perhaps we can define a new and smaller class of vehicles with cabins and/or inherent stability for those unable to ride.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#93
post #58
post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

This is a common misinformation campaign against EVs. First of all, EVs use far less brake material than gas cars. E.g. Most Teslas run the same pads for 100k+ miles due to strong regenerative braking, for me it was triple the longevity of brake pads on my Audi.

As for the tire emissions, you are likely quoting the worst case scenario that was devised by emissionsanalytics. The reality is, that was a worst case scenario, if you actually saw tire wear that was significantly more polluting than traditional cars you would have tires that go bald in a very short period of time.

For example, the Micheline Pilot Sport all seasons that come on the Tesla Model 3 are rated for 45k miles, but typically get around 35-40k miles depending on driving habits. That is only 13-26% more tread loss depending on driving style. So how is it possible the tires are losing significantly more tread (and as a consequence, polluting more) but also lasting a long time?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#94
post #58
post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

EVs don't use brakes as much as ICE vehicles because of automatic regenerative braking. This converts your forward momentum back into electricity. ICE vehicles use engine braking or brake pads. Both of those are much worse in more ways than one.

You might want to cross that off your list of things to complain about when talking about EVs.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#95
post #58
post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#96
post #88

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.

Maybe some sort of distance-dependent taxation on cars may be a more viable option, so that people can enjoy private commutes when they absolutely need it, while still pushing people towards public transport.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#97
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The huge oil reserves and tiny population make it much easier to give everyone a good quality of life... It also masks the effects of inefficient decisionmaking.

Only Norway has oil so, Denmark Sweden and Finland much less so.

https://geology.com/usgs/oil-shale/estonia-sweden-oil-shale....

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#99
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

Why is what's "required" a consideration? Almost nothing in modern life is required. You don't need AC, heat, refrigeration, video games, movies etc. NONE of that is a requirement and it all contributes to climate change. Part of living in a free society is that you get to have things that aren't required. IF I want to buy the biggest gas guzzling truck there is, I should have the right to do so since I'll be spendin…

Same argument for guns, right? Or a less baity example, antibiotics.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#100
post #58
post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

What if EVs (actually, any cars) were programmed for geofencing where acceleration is limited in pedestrian-focused areas based on municipal ordinances? Braking wouldn't be limited (so this is more directly reducing tire particles than brake dust) but I think a lot of city braking would naturally fall off a cliff without excessive acceleration.
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