I just found out that the Swiss word for restaurant/bar, namely "Beiz" is a Yenish word. This word is very popular in Switzerland.
Source: http://www.sifaz.org/Engelbert_Wittich_jenische_Sprache.pdf page 7 (German)
Yenish people
91–100 of 116 posts
Re: Yenish people
#92Many comments here are along the lines of: "we have ... gypsies ... here too and they are called ...". I recently visited a museum in (Kingston upon) Hull - 'ull. The Streetlife one. A wall board managed to describe most of the wandering tribes hereabouts (UK and Éire), where they hail from, their modus operandi, a brief history and how to refer to them with a fair chance of not causing offence. I had no idea that Ro…
You didn't think it was a bit fucked that kids don't get to go to school but rather trot their ponies up the old railway line?
If parents don't need to go away to work then homeschooling is much better, just as long as kids socialize in some way.
The origin of modern schools is daycare while parents are away slaving at the factory and to make more obedient industrial cogs. The fact that kids are bunched up together randomly with each other to grow into bullies/bullied/abuse victims (and taught by strangers who let's be frank could not do better than teaching career) is not a concern.
Re: Yenish people
#93> The Kingdom of Prussia in 1842 introduced a law forcing municipalities to provide social welfare to permanent residents without citizenship. As a consequence, there were attempts to prevent Yenish people from taking permanent residence.[6] Recently established settlements of Yenish, Sinti, and Roma, dubbed "gypsy colonies" (Zigeunerkolonien), were discouraged and attempts were made to incite the settlers to move aw…
Well, it's less that the law led to difficulties and more that the law ignited pre-existing bigotry, similar to some poor white Americans being opposed to welfare out of biases against poor black Americans thanks to a successful (implicitly racial) hysteria about "welfare queens". The Prussians were "fine"[0] with travelers as long as they were second-class citizens who didn't have access to welfare. As soon as citiz…
[deleted]
Re: Yenish people
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
A friend is a sociologist from the Balkans who has several times carried out fieldwork among Balkan Roma families who move seasonally to Western Europe and, being of Roma ancestry herself, has won interview subjects’ trust. She reports that her interviewees readily view stealing as a part of their culture; they themselves regard it and begging as the two pillars of their population’s economy and have a developed appr…
Spanish gipsies have their own "law" (unwritten shared rules) and "judges" (patriarchs). They have/had many archaic "laws", and one cornerstone used to be that a gipsy cannot work for a gadjé (non-gipsy). This internal "law" plus poverty results in criminal activity above the average for that poverty bracket because the only legal and "legal" employment is basically self-employment. Of course you can throw your hands…
[flagged]
Re: Yenish people
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Obviously nothing justifies discrimination, but yes, I can easily provide examples of "cultural practices that prevent integration into the broader community" as your parent comment said. These are a few examples for Gitanos (Spanish Roma) as it's what I know, being from Spain. - Child marriage is common. You can see an (anecdotal) case here https://bnn.network/breaking-news/tradition-or-crime-parents... and some dat…
Too many people in the hospital, sounds like a very serious crisis that needs urgently beuig adressed. Re marriage: Until 2006 people in France could marry aged 16, in Germany you still can if courts agree (so, pratically you propably cannot), and could as a woman with the ok of the parents until the 1970s. Just to pick two examples. Now, obviously most people do not marry that young anymore. If people want, for what…
I don't disagree with the spirit of your comment, but you have to draw the line at some point.
Regarding marriage, in Spain it's like in Germany, you can marry at 16 with the explicit permission of a court. I don't really agree with that (it makes no sense to me that people who are not considered mature enough to drink or drive can marry) and anyway I doubt courts would authorize arranged marriages, but let's set that aside, and focus on "around 2% of Roma girls aged 10–15 are married". 16+ is debatable, but surely we can agree that marrying before 16 is not okay? And 2% is of course a minority, but far from rare (in Spain we would be talking about something in the order of hundreds of such marriages per year).
Regarding hospitals, of course it's not a problem of huge importance, but it's an example of how clashes can occur in everyday life and can cause laypeople to reject these cultures. In Spain, each public hospital room typically houses two patients. Being there with a sickness that calls for peace and silence and having 20+ people packed in the room or crowding the corridor to be with your roommate is not a pleasant experience, and this is rather common (as in, I know several people who have experienced it).
Limitations on visits are not a specific law, they are just hospital policies for capacity and operativity reasons, which are even more limiting in cases like ICUs or during the COVID-19 pandemic. Also, they affect everyone. It can happen for example that a parent of five dies, and not all of their children can be with them at the moment of death. This is frustrating for some people, but it's how it works. So while I can understand that integration takes some effort by the majority population, what do we do? Allow 30 people to visit for a given collective but people not from that collective could still be denied being in their parent's deathbed? Allow it for everyone, which would need an exaggerated amount of resources? I see no reasonable solution other than just enforcing the rules, to be honest.
Re: Yenish people
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
You didn't think it was a bit fucked that kids don't get to go to school but rather trot their ponies up the old railway line?
If parents don't need to go away to work then homeschooling is much better, just as long as kids socialize in some way. The origin of modern schools is daycare while parents are away slaving at the factory and to make more obedient industrial cogs. The fact that kids are bunched up together randomly with each other to grow into bullies/bullied/abuse victims (and taught by strangers who let's be frank could not do bet…
Education is essential if we want to give children a chance at social mobility. Traditional schools have their problems, including those you list, but at least children taught in them can get some qualifications, and those qualifications give the children a shot at doing something other than the same as their parents.
If the only education the parents themselves got was walking a pony up and down a railway line, it's unlikely that they are in a position to effectively homeschool a child.
Re: Yenish people
#97I grew up in Eastern Europe among many minorities. I had friends who were Lipovans (Russian old believers who escaped persecution in Russia in the 17th century), Armenians that escaped the genocide by the turks, descendants of Phanariots (ottoman Greeks), and of course Gypsies both "white" and otherwise. We would refer to white gypsies as "blonde gypsies". I am pretty sure the guy who we would call "blonde gypsie" wa…
For others: Old Believers (a new term to me) are Russian orthodox catholics that didn't fork with the rest of Russia in the eastern orthodox schism in the 17th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Believers
There's a fascinating family of old believers who escaped to the Russian Taiga in 1936 to escape persecution, with the surviving daughter living there to this day:
Re: Yenish people
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
You didn't think it was a bit fucked that kids don't get to go to school but rather trot their ponies up the old railway line?
If parents don't need to go away to work then homeschooling is much better, just as long as kids socialize in some way. The origin of modern schools is daycare while parents are away slaving at the factory and to make more obedient industrial cogs. The fact that kids are bunched up together randomly with each other to grow into bullies/bullied/abuse victims (and taught by strangers who let's be frank could not do bet…
Homeschooling only works when the parents are educated. Pre-industrial homeschooling only occurred in wealthy families, or perhaps learning a trade - the closest most people got to an education was what they were told in church. Modern western homeschooling is the result of state-directed schooling bringing the average person up to the level of education of an 18th century nobleman.
Itinerant children in Europe are not getting anything like the education of an American child who's well-to-do parents decided to homeschool them. The boys learn the family trades and the girls learn to look after the household. Parents often have poor literacy and numeracy and are not capable of or interested in providing an academic education.
Whether or not that's enough is up to you, but the opportunities of children raised without anything resembling a modern schooling in today's society are limited. The failure to provide adequate education to the children of itinerant communities is a huge driving factor of their continued poverty.
Re: Yenish people
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, there I agree. Within legal.limits, meaning kids have to go to school for nine years starting age 6. No obligation to graduate in any form. Me supporting that form of publoc education flies in the face of the "public schools bad fpr reasons home schooling better" crowd. Funny so, that a lot that crowd seem to have a harder time allowing minority groups to home school their children. Either way, whatever parents…
Agreed. Laws should be indiscriminate and should be evenly enforced. They should not be driven by moral outrage about what other people do with their lives. They should focus on what is best for the child, while still considering the needs of the parents. Going to school is important, it provides personal formation, liberty and opportunities. That being said, a lot of school systems are really bad and underfunded - t…
That being said, a lot of school systems are really bad and underfunded - that is a problem, too!
Have you ever worked at a poorly-managed startup? If someone had given that startup a ton more money, without any accountability, would that have made things better or worse?
Adding money to a poorly managed organization (whether a school system or a private company) allows the root causes to thrive.
Re: Yenish people
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. Laws should be indiscriminate and should be evenly enforced. They should not be driven by moral outrage about what other people do with their lives. They should focus on what is best for the child, while still considering the needs of the parents. Going to school is important, it provides personal formation, liberty and opportunities. That being said, a lot of school systems are really bad and underfunded - t…
That being said, a lot of school systems are really bad and underfunded - that is a problem, too! My local public school system is over funded and bad: $27k per student per year, with only half the students achieving state standards. Have you ever worked at a poorly-managed startup? If someone had given that startup a ton more money, without any accountability, would that have made things better or worse? Adding mone…
I see your point that adding money to a badly managed system won't fix it. But I also think that a cost of 15K per student, for example, is totally reasonable.
I don't know where you live, but if you imagine that you need about 2 teachers to teach a class of 20 pupils at a salary of 100K, this alone is 10K per student, per year.
Plus there is maintenance staff, the buildings, materials, canteen staff...