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Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

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Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#91
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine take maybe 2 minutes to switch from heating to cooling, or cooling to heating.

I’m saying the time it takes to change the temperature in the home, not the time to switch function.

I use a thermostat that can switch modes automatically to keep temps within a certain defined range. So I think that's why it's not a problem for me.

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#92
These gradient comfort guys want $5000 for an 8000 btu unit with a total weight of $150 pounds. Compressor and heat exhaust hand outside. Evaporator and fan/control hang inside, It has a SEER rating of 10. There are dozens of minisplits for $1000 that have a SEER from 19-24. I can see no reason why a close coupled mini split with a 1" armored electrical/freon joint could not be made. This is what a gradient comfort is WTF $5000 https://www.gradientcomfort.com/products/gradient-window-hea...

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#93

I live in a colder climate where heat pumps are not popular. After talking with a number of HVAC people about this I was surprised to learn that despite being very similar to an AC system in principle, in practice converting an AC system into a heat pump system doesn't make economic sense--you end up just ripping one out and installing the other. I don't fully understand why this is the case, but I hope that there's…

The thing is (especially where I live) I'd still need a gas furnace. We regularly see -20F to -40F in the winter. While the 95% scenario sounds great, in practice still needing gas means we still need all the gas infrastructure. From my understanding natural gas burns pretty clean. The problem is leaks in infrastructure and drilling, which isn't going away because I buy a heat pump.

Replaced our entire system (furnace, a/c) mid last year. Heat pump with backup oil for colder days.

We cut the amount of gallons we used by over 50% compared to last year. Sure the oil infrastructure is needed to get it delivered (I wish we didn't need it) but I'm very happy that our heating (oil+electricity) bills are so much lower, even with the increased oil prices.

We went with a mid-range system but now I kind of wish we sprung for the "Cadillac" version.

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#94
post #72
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people shouldn't be living in Chicago (or most of Canada and the US midwest for that matter) because without heating it's just completely inhospitable to human life during the winter? Or pretty much all Australian cities in summer?

Heating is considerably more energy efficient than having to run ACs all over the place. And if you need to go outside when it's cold you can: you add layers of clothing. In Arizona, in the middle of summer, you could be buck naked and you'd still overheat (and get burnt, to boot).

Heating takes considerably more energy than cooling. Especially since most heating is done with natural gas, if homes were heated with a heat pump it would already 2-4x more efficient. Then if you look at the temperature delta between outside and room temp, the cold climates have a much larger difference. Taking 100 degree air down to 75 takes less energy than bring 20 degree air up to 65.

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#95

I live in a colder climate where heat pumps are not popular. After talking with a number of HVAC people about this I was surprised to learn that despite being very similar to an AC system in principle, in practice converting an AC system into a heat pump system doesn't make economic sense--you end up just ripping one out and installing the other. I don't fully understand why this is the case, but I hope that there's…

It's a $300 part that allows swapping the direction of heat flow. This tiny upfront cost is enough to block tons of good practice.

Nate the House Whisperer is a guy who has been trying to build a new generation of HVAC practice, and though he says he's usually a libertarian, he advocates for adding a tax to AC-only units that would eliminate this price difference (or some similar practice, I forget the exact details...)

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is (especially where I live) I'd still need a gas furnace. We regularly see -20F to -40F in the winter. While the 95% scenario sounds great, in practice still needing gas means we still need all the gas infrastructure. From my understanding natural gas burns pretty clean. The problem is leaks in infrastructure and drilling, which isn't going away because I buy a heat pump.

You need a backup heat source, but it doesn't necessarily mean you need full infrastructure of gas lines, ducting, and gas furnace. You could have an electric backup connected to ducted heat pump (e.g., non-efficient, pure electric) or could use electric strip heating, electric portable heaters, wood stoves, etc.

We have electric baseboard. It would cost hundreds more per month to utilize something like that instead of gas when it is -30F. In fact if we just leave it on over night a single time we notice it on our bill.

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#97

I live in a colder climate where heat pumps are not popular. After talking with a number of HVAC people about this I was surprised to learn that despite being very similar to an AC system in principle, in practice converting an AC system into a heat pump system doesn't make economic sense--you end up just ripping one out and installing the other. I don't fully understand why this is the case, but I hope that there's…

This persistent myth just needs to go away. People use heat pumps all over Scandinavia, including in the arctic circle. They are extremely popular there. They were early adopters of this technology there decades ago.

There are two popular varieties:

- Ground source heat pumps. Those work pretty much anywhere; just dig below the perma frost and you are good to go on the northern tip of Canada, Alaska, Norway, or wherever. Works great, ground temperatures tend to be very stable and it actually goes up the deeper you dig.

- Air source heat pumps. The expensive ones still work okish at extreme temperatures like -25-ish degrees C. Which is a reason these are actually more popular than ground sources even in places (e.g. most of Scandinavia) that reliably get such temperatures each winter.

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#98
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is (especially where I live) I'd still need a gas furnace. We regularly see -20F to -40F in the winter. While the 95% scenario sounds great, in practice still needing gas means we still need all the gas infrastructure. From my understanding natural gas burns pretty clean. The problem is leaks in infrastructure and drilling, which isn't going away because I buy a heat pump.

Replaced our entire system (furnace, a/c) mid last year. Heat pump with backup oil for colder days. We cut the amount of gallons we used by over 50% compared to last year. Sure the oil infrastructure is needed to get it delivered (I wish we didn't need it) but I'm very happy that our heating (oil+electricity) bills are so much lower, even with the increased oil prices. We went with a mid-range system but now I kind o…

I suppose this would be true if gas is expensive where you live. It's really cheap here, our heating bill is like $80/mo in the coldest of months for a 3k sq ft house. A heat pump even with the efficiency gains would be on par with that (unless we jumped into solar, which I have considered).

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#99
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people shouldn't be living in Chicago (or most of Canada and the US midwest for that matter) because without heating it's just completely inhospitable to human life during the winter? Or pretty much all Australian cities in summer?

I haven't formed an opinion on the matter yet, but I do think there's a large difference between it being too cold and too hot. If I'm too cold and my power goes out I have a lot of options to survive. I can put on more clothes, get under a blanket, light my furniture on fire, etc If I'm too hot and my power goes out, I die. Once the wet bulb temperature gets above a certain level in shade, there's nothing that can b…

Wet bulb isn’t an issue in notoriously dry Phoenix. If your power goes out in Phoenix you jump in a pool.

Re: Heat Pumps – The Well-Tempered Future of A/Cs

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but typically “heat pump” is used to mean it can provide heating too, whereas standard “A/C” is a “one-way” heat pump that only provides cooling.

I always went with this description too, though oddly a "heat pump water heater" only works one direction, yet "heat pump" is still in its name.

A "heat pump water cooler" also exists and is better known simply as a water cooler. You know, the one that people gossip around.
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