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Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

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Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#91

Post by swexbe »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #30
swexbe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. Killing something and trying to stop someone from killing something is not the same.

Abortion is not killing, abortion is healthcare. Yes, I realize one's set of values will create disagreement on this, I'm not trying to build consensus here, but can't let such a statement about "killing" go uncommented on.

It can be both, just like assisted suicide. Not sure how this has any effect on my argument. Advertising for an assisted suicide clinic, no matter your views on assisted suicide, is not the same as advertising for a sucide hotline. I think this is a fair comparison.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#92

Post by john-radio »

crisdux wrote: post #33
john-radio wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This conversation is about ethics. Google has no ethical obligation to help GitHub outcompete Gitlab; but it does have an ethical obligation to prevent anti-abortion centers from using Google services to trick young women into a lifetime of difficulty and poverty by misrepresenting themselves as medical providers. And what is more, we have an ethical obligations as Google's users and customers to force Google to beha…

Abortion is a complex and controversial issue. Google does not have an obligation to only show pro-choice material when searching abortion, because that would be a form of censorship and bias that would violate its own principles of neutrality and diversity. I am not persuaded by your argument that these search results will harm users.

> Abortion is a complex and controversial issue.

Your writing the words down does not make it so. It isn't particularly complex, and it isn't particularly controversial in the United States, even among Republicans; people want abortion rights and fringe groups want to deprive them of it.

Edit: also, I can't believe you baited me into arguing about whether abortion should be allowed or not. Just in case you aren't actually familiar with these "crisis pregnancy centers" and how they work, this is about physical buildings that literally masquerade as abortion centers who are ready to help people get their needed abortions, and instead string them along until it's legally or medically too late.

Of course people who believe abortion is problematic should be allowed to freely say so. That is not the activity that these frauds are engaged in.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#93

Post by Goronmon »

TheFreim wrote: post #83
Goronmon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...crisis pregnancy center which offers alternatives to abortion a bad thing, they're giving resources to help people not feel pressured to make an irreversible medical decision. It's laughable the dishonesty here. Anti-abortion businesses are precisely about pressuring people to make irreversible medical decisions. That's literally their modus operandi.

If "anti-abortion businesses" are about "pressuring people..." by merely providing an alternative to ending the life of an innocent human being then by implication "abortion businesses" would be about pressuring women to end the life. Of course I know you'd contest that, but that's because of an inconsistency. Even if you disagree with the pro-life view that all humans have a right to life, which is what supporting a…

If "anti-abortion businesses" are about "pressuring people..." by merely providing an alternative to ending the life of an innocent human being then by implication "abortion businesses" would be about pressuring women to end the life.

That's not implied at all. That's what you want it to imply because your stance requires that this be true.

But these are "clinics that provide abortion" as well as other reproductive healthcare. I am curious how many places exist solely to provide abortion and nothing else? I can't imagine it's very many, if any at all. So, already your equivalence falls apart, as there isn't an equivalent to these anti-abortion businesses.

Secondly, these clinics are about providing options, just like if you are concerned about treatments for any other issues, from the serious to the minor. My doctor may provide recommendations, but they aren't going to pressure me into something unless they think it's critical to my health. And you do have situations like ectopic pregnancies where an "abortion" would be pushed hard because it's a non-viable pregnancy and it could easily kill the woman in question if nothing was done. Because again, it's about healthcare.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#94

Post by jtgeibel »

docandrew wrote: post #74
growingkittens wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the reality, though. Anti-choice entities pretend to be legitimate clinics to draw people in.

Don’t abortion clinics do the same thing? Planned Parenthood isn’t called Planned Unparenthood. The whole abortion industry is based on euphemisms like your use of “choice” to avoid describing what’s really taking place.

Do you honestly believe that the name Planned Parenthood is confusing to the point of being intentionally deceptive?

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#95

Post by swexbe »

pron wrote: post #41
swexbe wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. Killing something and trying to stop someone from killing something is not the same.

That anyone is killed in an abortion is a minority opinion. Some thing , however, is also killed every time you wash your hands.

Only if you disregard everyone outside USA/EU.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#96

Post by afavour »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #88
afavour wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are these situations comparable? If you google GitHub you’re probably looking for source control. GitLab offers source control. If you google “abortion providers” you’re looking to get an abortion. The ads you see are specifically for people who want to look like abortion providers but actually seek to stop you from getting one and don’t provide any abortion services at all. It’s like googling GitHub and…

GP "got it in one." This is SEO 101. Just because you don't like how it worked out doesn't mean the system broke. It's working exactly as designed. More and more of us hate it, for ALL the reasons that it doesn't take us to exactly what WE think it ought to show us. Like having several ads at the top, and then the next several links leading us to YouTube videos asking us to "like and subscribe" for more source contro…

Nope.

If these anti-abortion ads were honest about what they are I’d agree with you. But they aren’t, they’re deliberately portraying themselves as something they are not in order to ensnare their target market.

Google makes value judgements about search results all the time. PageRank has always been a value judgement. Spam filtering is a value judgment. Any result, ad or not, portraying itself as something other than what it is? That’s a bad search result and Google would be a better search engine if it didn’t have them.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#97

Post by john-radio »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #82
Goronmon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does not have an obligation to only show pro-choice material when searching abortion Your twisted words here aren't helping your argument. In this situation someone is looking for healthcare options and they are being shown options for scam services that have no intention to ever provide any healthcare. Just as if someone was searching for prescription medication and it directed them to sites that sold what ap…

Boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You twisting the definition of "healthcare" to only mean abortion is just as bad. "Healthcare" to a teen on the fence might mean EXACTLY looking for an agency that can help them deliver and give the baby up for adoption.

> "Healthcare" to a teen on the fence might mean EXACTLY looking for an agency that can help them deliver and give the baby up for adoption.

Yes, but not for teens googling "abortion care." Are you arguing in good faith here?

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#98

Post by afavour »

prepend wrote: post #40
afavour wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are these situations comparable? If you google GitHub you’re probably looking for source control. GitLab offers source control. If you google “abortion providers” you’re looking to get an abortion. The ads you see are specifically for people who want to look like abortion providers but actually seek to stop you from getting one and don’t provide any abortion services at all. It’s like googling GitHub and…

> In what way are these situations comparable? People searching for GitHub are more likely to use git and therefore are gitlab’s target audience. People searching for abortions are more likely to get an abortion and thus the target audience for anti-abortion orgs. It seems logical from an advertising perspective even though you may not agree with it. As a pregnant woman deciding what I do with my pregnancy, this isn’…

> the info is probably something I’m interested in

So if you were a pregnant woman you’d agree that these ads are bad because they deliberately misrepresent themselves. If you’re researching what to do with your pregnancy you’d surely want your search results to be accurate?

> As a pregnant woman deciding what I do with my pregnancy

For what it’s worth I’m pretty sure someone googling “abortion center near me” has decided what to do with their pregnancy anyway.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#99

Post by Goronmon »

TheFreim wrote: post #86
Goronmon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When offering alternatives to abortion get demonized you have to wonder what this is all really about. And abortion is never demonized by the anti-abortion groups? Absurd.

I never said that "abortion is never demonized." Abortion is rightly attacked by "anti-abortion groups". There is a lack of symmetry: the usual pro-abortion marketing is that they're "pro-choice" but then they attack services that are dedicated to providing resources for one of those choices.

When offering alternatives to abortion get demonized you have to wonder what this is all really about.

What is the anti-abortion crowd really about then if they are demonizing abortion?

There is a lack of symmetry: the usual pro-abortion marketing is that they're "pro-choice" but then they attack services that are dedicated to providing resources for one of those choices.

There isn't a lack of symmetry, you just fail to understand the issue. Almost no one (I'm using this term in case you point to a single person that has said otherwise) is "pro-abortion" in the sense that almost no one actually wants abortions to happen. What they want is that the option is available to woman who feel it's something they need to consider. That's it.

Anti-abortion groups are about removing choice. Just as if there was a "anti-cancer-treatment" group that was out there fighting against treatment for cancer because they felt like "cancer is life just like anything else" and thought it was "killing living beings" when you treated it.

Re: Googling 'abortion clinic near me'? The top result often an anti-abortion clinic

#100

Post by afavour »

veave wrote: post #65
afavour wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are these situations comparable? If you google GitHub you’re probably looking for source control. GitLab offers source control. If you google “abortion providers” you’re looking to get an abortion. The ads you see are specifically for people who want to look like abortion providers but actually seek to stop you from getting one and don’t provide any abortion services at all. It’s like googling GitHub and…

I want to think that people who google abortion providers don't want their babies killed, they simply need help, one way or another

Fetuses, not babies. Let’s be accurate here.
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