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European DSA Recipients of Services Report

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Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#91

Post by izacus »

Jtsummers wrote: post #39
vezuchyy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have Apple Watch, but have Garmin. I used the store once during the initial setup and I don't see why it should be different for AW users.

A lot of Watch apps also get installed through the attached iPhone when you install the associated iPhone app. I think it was the default, I turned it off, to have "Automatic Downloads" on for apps. So if that's still the default (or the present setting for the watch) then if you download Strava for iPhone you'll get Strava on your Apple Watch without ever touching the Watch App Store.

But it's still Watch App Store which installed and delivered the app right? And the developers must use it to give you the application?

Just because you didn't open the UI it doesn't mean the developers weren't forced to go through that app store to reach you.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#92

Post by [deleted] »

jd96 wrote: post #89
gumballindie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those riches are taken back as taxes. So while it sounds like europeans are rich it’s just on paper. But they take comfort in projecting their own status on similarly poor people from parts of europe that are developing faster but are bit behind since you know they only recently became free. It’s hilarious to observe and funny in a sad way.

Far better to live in a low tax, failed state with extreme economic inequality. At least we’ve got Apple Watches, am I right?

[deleted]

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#93

Post by Jtsummers »

jd96 wrote: post #90
Jtsummers wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is monthly ??? Store users. Having an Apple Watch does not imply they use the Apple Watch App Store every month, or even any month. Even having an iPhone does not mean they'll use the iPhone App Store each month (though it's probably more likely).

What even is the Apple Watch store? Isn’t that just the iOS store?

> What even is the Apple Watch store?

Apple Watch App Store. It's an app store on the Apple Watch showing Apple Watch apps. Many of which, but not all, have an iPhone/iPad companion app.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#94

Post by Someone »

systemvoltage wrote: post #83

Wait, why is this a regulation? Why should a corporation have to disclose MAU? I’m holding off my cynicism, asking for a friend.

There’s fairly broad political pressure to regulate large players in online platforms such as Apple and Google.

As a result, the EU regulated online platforms. As is often the case, they aren’t stupid, and put more stringent requirements on large players than on smaller ones.

So, they have to know which players are smaller and which are larger. They chose to use number of active users as the way to measure whether players are large, with 10% of the population (45 million) a cut-off point.

That’s why they require all digital services companies to report # of active users.

(Aside: it turns out that Wikipedia is a very large online platform, too. See https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...)

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#95

Post by greycol »

systemvoltage wrote: post #83

Wait, why is this a regulation? Why should a corporation have to disclose MAU? I’m holding off my cynicism, asking for a friend.

To comply with section 24(2) of the DSA. You need to publish that information about your number of EU users.

Currently there's no strict rules on how you calculate or even necessarily the information you publish. Other than saying based on your calculation your number of users is below 45 million (in the EU). In the future there will be delegated articles on how the calculation must be done.

Obviously the regulation was made in comitee with team of lawyers but I expect the justification for "Why should a corporation have to disclose MAU?" is something like:

* The majority of businesses will with minimal work be able to tell the difference between having under say 4 million EU usere and having 45 million eureopean users so they'll know if they're in a range where they should be concerned about the regulations.

* If they're getting to a size where they have millions of users (in europe alone) they should have the resources to put in place logging/policy to figure out if they're approaching the 45 million EU users with more confidence.

* By making them publish a statement saying they've done what they believe is due dilligence on making sure the rules don't apply then enforcement becomes much easier. Auditing only needs to be done randomly on a handful of sites that declare they're just under the limit and on those who look like they are taking the piss saying they're well below the limit or seem to be growing but keep saying they're just under the limit declaration after declaration.

So these numbers are shown in Apple's case because it's in a companies best interest to show they're acting in good faith in working out these numbers (Especially since in Apple's case they're trying to differentiate the services so that they can try to reserve the right to not apply the DSA to some of those services in a possible future). Stating a number (or that you're well below the user limit) implies you've done a real calculation (i.e. I only get 44 million site visits from anywhere in the world every 6 months so I can't have 45 million EU users) and in the case of an audit where it's not the case shows you were acting maliciously/with gross negligence/with a calculation tha needs to be changed, making any enforcement much more justifiable.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#97

Post by beaned »

eptcyka wrote: post #84
anonymouse008 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, different markets. I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences on each.

Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked years ago when they split them off. What is up with the enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably ap…

I don't think it's apologetic, it's two different approaches. MS has chosen to try to kill 2 birds with one stone, and Apple has allowed their devices to become more focused. As someone with an iPad, I appreciate Apple not trying to force that iPhone and iPad apps be the same thing. The experience is better.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#98

Post by Twisell »

eptcyka wrote: post #84
anonymouse008 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I get the position here. Different device classes, different markets. I've gotten more than a few apps approved on tv, watch, Mac, iOS, iPad. They are distinctly different. As much as Apple is helping us leverage 'one code base to rule them all' there are so many gotchas and detail required to make great experiences on each.

Yeah, sort of how Microsoft could argue that there exists two separate markets for Windows running on stationary compute devices and Windows for mobile devices. Except this is a sad joke and letting Apple get away with two devices running the same OS would be playing into their hand that they stacked years ago when they split them off. What is up with the enormous amount of people on this site who are inexplicably ap…

This is hilarious considering that the classical, yet irrational, fear amongst long time MacOS users is that Apple might be secretly planing an OS convergence. This is usually perceived as doomsday for MacOS and have been feared by some for up to 15 years.

You are basically stating the opposite while completely ignoring the actual complexity of such an hypothetical merge for codebases that forked 15 years ago. They share a kernel and some API, but on the UI side recent cross platform framework are more like a proof of concept than a production ready thing.

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#99

Post by andrejguran »

scarface74 wrote: post #63
nottorp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the iOS store is the only one that's even remotely close to being over that What iOS store? They're all one and the same. You can install iOS apps on iPadOS right? It doesn't matter that they "voluntarily comply". They just shouldn't have the nerve to split them.

You can’t install iPad only apps on iPhone though.

you can if you check one checkmark during publishing of your iOS app (same with mac).

Re: European DSA Recipients of Services Report

#100

Post by sib »

madsbuch wrote: post #67
rootusrootus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The freedom-loving part of me wants the EU to push I'd expect that writing this phrase caused actual physical pain from the cognitive dissonance.

Why? A big part of governance is to ensure individual freedom: Minimum salary, unions, etc. The comment seems to be perfectly congruent. (Though you have to accept a more ... European world view)

Uhh, those are antithetical to individual freedom.

If I want to work for less than the minimum salary, I can't.

If I want to work at a company and not join a union, I can't.

As someone once said, "the true minimum wage is zero."

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