US could soon approve MDMA therapy • Hacker News Board

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#91

Post by syndacks » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

This same system brought COVID vaccines to the rest of the world in warp speed.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#92

Post by VoodooJuJu » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

1. Friends and family helping each other with their issues isn't profitable, but selling drugs to "help" with their issues is.

2. Similarly, unbroken families aren't profitable, but split up ones are: divorce proceedings, 2x apartments/houses/taxes, higher dependency on the state for assistance, no family to help through issues which may beget drugs (see #1).

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#93

Post by abhaynayar » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

I do feel that something like this could help me. I've spent quite a bit of time solving some of my problems around anxiety and fear, but progress is slow, if at all.

And sometimes I feel like I just need a "click" in my mind to change perspective. I know what my problem is, when I'm looking at myself as an observer, but it is just so hard to get out of it.

I have been making steady progress by reading up and working on my self "naturally", but it sure would help if something external could make things easier. Unfortunately I don't know if these drug therapies will ever come to India.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#94

Post by notch898c » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

fasterik wrote: post #82

themitigating wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his argument is that the US should focus on trying to solve the underlying issues, either first or at least concurrently

PTSD can be caused by literally any traumatic, life-threatening situation. How is the US supposed to "solve" that?

There are ways to mitigate, but not eliminate, the presence of traumatic situations. Whether that is the purview of government perhaps is another question.

I suspect war and bad family environment are a massive source of trauma of US persons; the path to mitigating the former at least facially is a bit more obvious.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#95

Post by publichealthrow » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:58 PM UTC

52-6F-62 wrote: post #58

hiddencost wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're doing just fine with Rick Doblin at MAPS. To pull a quote from Hunter S Thompson: "We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously...…

Thompson was just disillusioned. He most certainly saw everything Leary did. That’s what fed his sardonicism. Where we’re going now is possibly stranger than Leary imagined. But definitely in line with what he hoped. Check out Andrew Gallimore’s research and writing (Okinawa Institute of Science and Tech)

[dead]

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#96

Post by outlace » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

I agree but it’s hard to navigate out of it organically. The mental health crisis is quite similar in origin as the obesity epidemic. In the latter it is largely caused by the food environment and we could avoid the vast majority of cases of diabetes by changing our societal food environment, but how does one do that?

A politician that bans or regulates sugar is not going to be popular. People want their sweets, or at least the option to have sweets. So what is the medical system to do if it can’t modify the food environment? It generates drugs that treat the diseases caused by the food environment. Similar with mental health.

There are society-wide environmental factors likely contributing to huge rates of depression and anxiety, but how is any one person or organization supposed to change that? So what does the medical system do? It generates drugs to treat the mental health conditions caused by environmental factors.

It’s a bad equilibrium but it’s hard to see a path out. Otherwise if you decide drugs are bad you have still have the environmental causes there and a bunch of untreated diabetes and suicidal people.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#97

Post by hammyhavoc » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

eimrine wrote: post #86

hammyhavoc wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medicinally, ergo, if someone has depression, they can use it to overcome it (apparently). Recreationally means that you don't have a medical issue that you are trying to solve and are taking it just to take it.

Thank you for definition. The thing is that I might have a depression and an understanding of what to do with mdma but a lack of trust to every psych* specialist because they are educated by govt who just wants some obey from everybody.

I've also struggled with depression. If you're certain there's no rationality behind it (self-esteem, family ill, money problems, war, health etc), it might be worth considering medication of some description, but most depressive episodes can be solved without any kind of medication. Most medications simply mask the problem and don't deal with the root cause.

That's not to say that medications can't be useful in tackling the root cause, they can be, but not uncommonly, the negative side effects outweigh the benefits of taking them versus just resolving the problems in your life. CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) can be very effective for a lot of problems.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#98

Post by bluetomcat » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

fasterik wrote: post #52

bluetomcat wrote: post #20

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

I see a few issues with your argument. Just because something has underlying social factors doesn't mean that it shouldn't also be treated with drugs and therapy. The latest wave of psychedelic research is not simply pushing a prescription drug; all of the research on MDMA, psilocybin, etc. is finding that these drugs work within a clinical setting paired with therapy. Also, I wasn't able to find a source saying that…

There's something about American culture that facilitates various psychological conditions. The aggressive, over-expressive, utilitarian individualism, the inability to just stay calm and quiet and think in solitude, the emphasis on material wealth and well-being and looking "sexy", the social warriorism and activism on the same issues.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#99

Post by hellweaver666 » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

fasterik wrote: post #82

themitigating wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his argument is that the US should focus on trying to solve the underlying issues, either first or at least concurrently

PTSD can be caused by literally any traumatic, life-threatening situation. How is the US supposed to "solve" that?

erm... reduce the number of traumatic, life-threatening situations by taking away the guns? Get your police force under control and stop trying to control peoples minds and bodies could be a good start?

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#100

Post by fasterik » Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #54

nkozyra wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My views have changed about this a lot over the years. I've gone from feeling that medication is largely unnecessary and that there are alternative routes to feeling that carefully directed medications can and often should be used along with alternative therapies, when applicable. Just throwing medication at a problem and calling it a day will never be useful, but seeing a lot of people find success with a mix of med…

> Fixing society is a much larger (and ultimately fluid, unsolvable) problem so I feel like whatever people can do to find contentme But why is it unsolvable? As the parent comment noted, these issues aren't as prevalent in other cultures. So why here? Why is these so much pain that needs to be medicated? I'm not anti-meds. I think the re-introduction of MDMA and other formerly alternative meds is a good thing as the…

>As the parent comment noted, these issues aren't as prevalent in other cultures

They said it without citing a source. There is evidence that there is higher treatment seeking for PTSD in high-income countries, including the US, but that doesn't mean it's exclusive to the US or that it isn't prevalent in lower-income countries with less access to mental healthcare.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6034513/