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A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

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Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#91

Post by japoco »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #70
jacquesm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That jumped out at me too. You could lose 500K in a casino and nobody would bat an eye but win 500K and suddenly the police is involved and the casino refuses to pay out. Personally I think if they can't prove that you are cheating that you should be allowed to continue to play as long as you feel like and the casino stays afloat. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. The police automatically sidin…

Google Phil Ivey Crockfords. This case isn't that bad because the casino let them have the winnings. Ivey didn't get his winnings, sued them and still lost because the court concluded he was "dishonest". Iirc, all that happened was that there was an imperfection in how certain cards were printed, and Ivey was a stooge for a Chinese woman (Ivey is a poker player who is known to gamble huge) who had worked out this edg…

>unlike in Asia where the huge books actually winning accounts to improve their line and make more money

This is true but it should have a big footnote. Disregarding Asian bookmakers that like to void winning bets from time to time for no apparent reason, Pinnacle, which is the book you’re referring to, lets winning players bet at such low limits that making money off them is an excruciating process.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#92

Post by j0hnyl »

urs wrote: post #41

This was neat. It reminded me of a similar story in poker history - Stu Ungar. Stu was a phenomenal player who won the World Series of Poker (WSOP) Main Event three times, in 1980, 1981, and 1997. Like Tosa, Stu had an uncanny ability to read his opponents and seemingly predict their moves. Similar to Tosa, people questioned Ungar's poker prowess as to whether he was cheating or not (it's a pretty deep conspiracy rab…

There are also people that spend hours every day practicing throwing dice on replica craps tables to gain a slight edge.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#93

Post by toast0 »

jacquesm wrote: post #22
willcipriano wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I oppose efforts to legalize gambling not because I dislike gambling but I oppose the theft that we call legalized gambling.

The same theft is present in the lotteries and those are more often than not national affairs with the common pot as the beneficiary. Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?

> Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?

I am one. Although, I only enter once per drawing, and only when the pot is large enough that I can pretend it's +EV.

There's a lot of games where I can't even pretend it's even close to reasonable odds, and I don't get much entertainment, so I'll leave those alone.

I do think casinos tend to be regulated to pay back a way higher % than lotteries though.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#94

Post by j0hnyl »

nestorD wrote: post #55
zamnos wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a similar urban legend about craps. That with enough practice, you can get good enough at throwing the dice at the exact right place to get, again, not a visible advantage, but a just ever so slightly higher statistical advantage. Sounds impossible, but looking at the level of skill a world class athlete has encourages me to believe in this urban legend.

There are trick shot with dices that will get you what you want. I have seen retired cheaters (real ones, not magicians pretending to be ones) use them and consistently get the number they want (requirement to bounce on surfaces make things harder but not impossible).

it's not about getting the number you want, it's about not getting just two numbers.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#95

Post by jackmott »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
MrMember wrote: post #10

>Tosa, Marjanovic and Pilisi returned to the Ritz at 10 that night, as promised. This time they were led to a private room where a squad from the London Metropolitan Police was waiting. An officer politely informed them they were under arrest on suspicion of “deception” and led them away to be interviewed at a nearby police station. Once the gamblers were out of earshot, Wootten urged the cops to check their shoes an…

That jumped out at me too. You could lose 500K in a casino and nobody would bat an eye but win 500K and suddenly the police is involved and the casino refuses to pay out. Personally I think if they can't prove that you are cheating that you should be allowed to continue to play as long as you feel like and the casino stays afloat. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. The police automatically sidin…

[dead]

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#96

Post by Waterluvian »

MrMember wrote: post #10

>Tosa, Marjanovic and Pilisi returned to the Ritz at 10 that night, as promised. This time they were led to a private room where a squad from the London Metropolitan Police was waiting. An officer politely informed them they were under arrest on suspicion of “deception” and led them away to be interviewed at a nearby police station. Once the gamblers were out of earshot, Wootten urged the cops to check their shoes an…

This reminds me of the cheating scandal in chess. They don’t actually have any proof of cheating beyond it being statistically near-impossible for Niemann to play such “perfect” games.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#97

Post by tzs »

mathgeek wrote: post #28
tzs wrote: post #20

The "Roulette Assault" episode of the old History Channel series "Breaking Vegas" covers another way to beat roulette but without requiring computers or communications devices in the casino or timing anything. Archive.org has a copy of that episode [1]. A family went to casinos around Europe and observed the roulette wheels, keeping extensive records on where the ball landed. They were not covert about it. They'd jus…

If you read the article to its conclusion, the biased wheel method is covered in some depth.

That seems to still be talking about making predictions after the ball is released. The biases remove enough randomness that an experienced human can predict sufficiently to get a slight advantage where the ball will end up the same way the earlier computers did.

My recollection of the family in the "Breaking Vegas" episode is that they were not looking at the ball release and making predictions. They were taking their records of a large number of observed outcomes and then could come up with a list of bets to make when they later returned to the wheel.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#98

Post by pmoriarty »

vuln wrote: post #79
pmoriarty wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can the consumer have confidence in any of those?

How do consumers have any confidence in the FAA, EPA, FDA, or any other entity that performs checks and balances?

At least with the FDA I'm eating food and taking medicines that doesn't make me or the people around me sick all the time (as they did before the founding of the FDA).

With casinos it's the opposite. Their customers regularly lose their shirts. Maybe the games aren't rigged, maybe they are, as someone who regularly loses (as most gamblers do), they might as well be rigged and I would not be surprised if there was regulatory capture and the consumer would have no way to know.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#99

Post by skippyboxedhero »

japoco wrote: post #91
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Phil Ivey Crockfords. This case isn't that bad because the casino let them have the winnings. Ivey didn't get his winnings, sued them and still lost because the court concluded he was "dishonest". Iirc, all that happened was that there was an imperfection in how certain cards were printed, and Ivey was a stooge for a Chinese woman (Ivey is a poker player who is known to gamble huge) who had worked out this edg…

>unlike in Asia where the huge books actually winning accounts to improve their line and make more money This is true but it should have a big footnote. Disregarding Asian bookmakers that like to void winning bets from time to time for no apparent reason, Pinnacle, which is the book you’re referring to, lets winning players bet at such low limits that making money off them is an excruciating process.

I was more thinking of SBO. They do have low limits on unpopular events, but syndicates are doing $1m/match with them on soccer...they are prepared to take risk.

You have to understand that the limit is a function of the volume they take after you set their line. That is how the economy works. Your profit is paid out of their profit from squares after the line is set. So if they aren't doing volume after the line moves, then they are just going to leave the limit.

Re: A Gambler Who Beat Roulette

#100

Post by secabeen »

jacquesm wrote: post #22
willcipriano wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I oppose efforts to legalize gambling not because I dislike gambling but I oppose the theft that we call legalized gambling.

The same theft is present in the lotteries and those are more often than not national affairs with the common pot as the beneficiary. Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?

The most well-known wealthy lottery winner was Jack Whittaker. His life went downhill after winning, largely due to the winnings and the notoriety.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_%28lottery_winn...

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