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Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

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Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#91

Post by mjwalshe »

maukdaddy wrote: post #28
Aqua_Geek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I was going to suggest using something like Soundflower to create a fake sound input device, but at the end of the day it's still a software thing that can be overridden. If you're really paranoid, you could always remove the mic with a soldering iron... =)

That's exactly what's done with cameras and microphones in high-security environments.

Agreed a mate who used to work for Qinetiq - he commented that buying a new phone was getting to be a problem as taking a phone with a camera onsite was strictly forbidden.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#92

Post by jaylevitt »

sounds wrote: post #79
joshzayin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already do this for the camera, though I'm not sure if it's hardware or software.

It's firmware, loaded on boot and replaceable by someone with root permissions. So it's not a trivial thing to bypass, but it's not secure. Use a sticker or post-it note if you're paranoid.

Are you sure? A day or two ago someone on HN said that newer MacBooks had the LED wired in series with the camera's power supply.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#93

Post by moheeb »

dedward wrote: post #52
ddagradi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He even gets basic facts incorrect. The author assumes his Macbook Pro doesn't have a dedicated audio input. It does. Every Macbook Pro does. (The Macbook Air is the only Mac shipping without a built-in audio input). Really, what I see is a software update that fixes a user interface bug. System Preferences no longer offers disconnected audio inputs as a selectable option, because it's just plain smarter that way. Co…

so despiteall that, when you are using the prefs screen and turn the input volume theway cown, it should not register any input right? Thenwhy does it? thas not nothing.

A microphone is a mechanical device, so it will always produce output regardless of what your volume settings may be.

To get technical, you are controlling the gain of the volume of the stage after the microphone. So in the real world the microphone should always show input unless physically disconnected. Computer manufacturers don't follow any standard practices it seems, so you may see it both ways.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#94

Post by mrgordon »

kgo wrote: post #86
jwr wrote: post #37

Every microphone in every powered device must be considered as listening if you are serious about security at all. So what if the panel actually even disabled the mic preamp on the board? You could have a program/virus/trojan that silently re-enabled it behind your back, without you knowing. So I'd say this is nothing to be concerned about, because every device you own potentially "listens" with its microphones all t…

I believe the LED that tells you your MacBook's camera is on is hard-wired into the motherboard, for the very purpose of making it impossible to covertly enable the camera via software. A similar approach could be used for a mic.

This is not true. The software Prey (which is designed to spy on people who have computers that have been stolen) takes covert photos and sends them without activating the light.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#96

Post by semanticist »

mrgordon wrote: post #94
kgo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the LED that tells you your MacBook's camera is on is hard-wired into the motherboard, for the very purpose of making it impossible to covertly enable the camera via software. A similar approach could be used for a mic.

This is not true. The software Prey (which is designed to spy on people who have computers that have been stolen) takes covert photos and sends them without activating the light.

I just installed Prey, marked my MacBook Pro as missing, waited, and the light definitely did come on - albeit for around two seconds - while taking the webcam picture.

There is no way in software to disable that LED.

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#98

Post by eternalban »

kennywinker wrote: post #9

Even if the default input device is set to "Line-In" software would be able to get the audio data from any device on the system. The NSA precautions mentioned in the article are superstitious and would likely do nothing to deter anyone who had compromised your system that badly.

Is "superstitious" a euphemism for misinformation?

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#99

Post by Schwolop »

jwr wrote: post #37

Every microphone in every powered device must be considered as listening if you are serious about security at all. So what if the panel actually even disabled the mic preamp on the board? You could have a program/virus/trojan that silently re-enabled it behind your back, without you knowing. So I'd say this is nothing to be concerned about, because every device you own potentially "listens" with its microphones all t…

And if you're really really worried, you should rip out the speakers too. Just in case someone's wired them up to work in reverse...

Re: Is My MacBook Pro Always Listening?

#100

Post by bradleyland »

jacquesm wrote: post #88
bradleyland wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're after a specific individual, a far better target than their computer would be their cell phone. Computers are complex and stationary. Cell phones are eminently more susceptible to this type of attack because the government can compel carriers to use technology that is already in place. No malware package required. Working in telecom was enlightening for me. There's a feature called "executive barge in" that…

It is possible to use a phone as an eavesdropping device even when it is on-hook: http://www.euronet.nl/~rembert/echelon/muren/index.html#floo... (dutch)

I don't think frequency flooding works with the newer types of microphones used in modern analog phones (electret/dynamic). The article specificly mentions carbon mics, and that frequency flooding can be defeated with a capacitor.
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