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One Year into the War in Ukraine

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Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#91

Post by miguelazo »

ninjagoo wrote: post #61
freefrog334433 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No appeasement has been the reason for fighting wars since WW2. This shows a misunderstanding of the wars. In Vietnam, it was called the domino theory, except Vietnam was a war of independence. The war on terror - invade Iraq so the terrorist don't come here. The Russians are not going to invade NATO countries.

> No appeasement has been the reason for fighting wars since WW2. Do you have any evidence for this statement? > The Russians are not going to invade NATO countries. Isn't this what everyone, including Russia, minus the US Administration, was saying about Ukraine prior to Feb 24, 2022? [1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-putin-inva…

Europeans thought it could be avoided because they still had naive beliefs about the nature and motivations of the US security state. The invasion was quite predictable. So predictable that the RAND Corp recommended virtually all of the steps that the US took in order to facilitate the invasion.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#92

Post by miguelazo »

wonderwonder wrote: post #73
scohesc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does seem that way... I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces at the expense of Ukrainians and "Allied" military equipment (instead of some theoretical war where the US send their soldiers _and_ equipment on the field, and the resulting PR nightmares, etc. that would cause) - essentially weakening Russia's military to a point so that Russia can't respond as aggress…

"I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces" Of course they are. These weapon systems were built to defeat Russia and now they are being used for just that with the bonus of 0 risk to US lives. With that said the US is not making Ukraine fight, Ukraine wants to fight and is begging for the weapons that the West is providing and more of them. The Ukrainians are not puppets, we d…

The US (and their Neonazi Azov Allies) is absolutely making Ukraine fight. They have undermined diplomatic solutions at multiple points that were satisfactory even to Zelensky. Ukrainians are being used to advance US hegemonic and LNG interests, and it’s disgusting.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#93

Post by robochat »

UIUC_06 wrote: post #77

Only people whose knowledge of history begins with WW II think everything is Munich, and that analogy applies to everything. There was 6,000 years of recorded history before Munich. It's not always correct to think that "if we appease them here, they'll be in our bedrooms next." Sometimes in history, the two sides cut a deal, and peace was maintained for a few generations, which was all anyone expected anyway.

I agree with this sentiment but in this particular case, with the personality that Putin projects to the world, it seems like appeasement would just encouragement him to try to take more.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#94

Post by orwin »

zztop44 wrote: post #60
okasaki wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? Is the US a military state?

Yes, quite obviously yes, I would have thought. All imperial states are military states aren’t they?

No to your question, i wouldn't call 19th century GB a military state. But the US is one, i would agree.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#95

Post by miguelazo »

JohnFen wrote: post #36
scohesc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does seem that way... I think the west is using Ukraine as a way to whittle down Russian military forces at the expense of Ukrainians and "Allied" military equipment (instead of some theoretical war where the US send their soldiers _and_ equipment on the field, and the resulting PR nightmares, etc. that would cause) - essentially weakening Russia's military to a point so that Russia can't respond as aggress…

> I wish the west would stay out of conflicts it doesn't have a stake in I think there's a solid human rights reason to be involved in the way we are. But even ignoring that, I also think we do have a stake in this. > The fastest way out of the war is negotiation unfortunately Russia wants no negotiation that doesn't result in them stealing territory from Ukraine. You can't negotiate with that.

> I think there's a solid human rights reason to be involved in the way we are.

The US is literally prolonging the conflict by shoveling guns, “advisors” and intelligence into the fight. It’s nothing but a proxy war, using the Ukrainians as pawns. And the longer it goes on, the more territory Russia will expect/need to keep.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#96

Post by ninjagoo »

miguelazo wrote: post #91
ninjagoo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No appeasement has been the reason for fighting wars since WW2. Do you have any evidence for this statement? > The Russians are not going to invade NATO countries. Isn't this what everyone, including Russia, minus the US Administration, was saying about Ukraine prior to Feb 24, 2022? [1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukrai... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-putin-inva…

Europeans thought it could be avoided because they still had naive beliefs about the nature and motivations of the US security state. The invasion was quite predictable. So predictable that the RAND Corp recommended virtually all of the steps that the US took in order to facilitate the invasion. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

> The invasion was quite predictable. So predictable that the RAND Corp recommended virtually all of the steps that the US took in order to facilitate the invasion.

Your link appears to contradict your conclusion that the US took steps to facilitate the invasion. Specifically, key findings from the link are below, and appear to advise against facilitating the invasion (geopolitical and ideological measures) and instead focusing on economics.

> Key Findings

> Russia's weaknesses lie in the economic domains

> The most promising measures to stress Russia are in the realms of energy production and international pressure

> Geopolitical measures to bait Russia into overextending itself are likely impractical, or they risk second-order consequences

> Ideological measures to undermine the regime's stability carry significant risks of counter escalation

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#97

Post by miguelazo »

andrey123 wrote: post #88
pshirshov wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt it's "zero". I've quizzed many many people I had connections with and literally all of them support the war up to some extent. The most common opinion is "we shouldn't have started this but we should win this war and take over Ukraine and Poland". It would be really strange to count such opinions as "anti-war".

> I've quizzed many many people I had connections with and literally all of them support the war up to some extent. I would have reconsidered my approach to making connections if that happened to me :)

If you’re on HN in Russia, writing perfect English, you are no doubt part of a certain class.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#98

Post by meheleventyone »

anextio wrote: post #76
meheleventyone wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “They are only focused on attrition and minimizing their own casualties.” ??? That’s errr... going poorly.

https://meduza.io/amp/en/news/2023/02/17/close-to-15k-russia... An investigation via open sources by the BBC and Meduza (an anti-Putin media outlet based in Latvia) has confirmed the deaths of about 15k Russian soldiers since the start of the war, and estimates the true number to be up to 60% higher. What sources do you have that the widely reported media number of 200k+ is actually true that doesn’t ultimately come…

Yes like I said... err... that’s going poorly.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#99

Post by lnsru »

I_complete_me wrote: post #68

In fact Putin is completely correct in his attempt to retrieve Ukraine for Mother Russia and it is the West that is the aggressor. Now, if you just had a visceral (negative) response to this, I am with you. The point I am trying to make is that the Russian people seem to be equally incredulous to the idea that Russia itself is the aggressor. How is it that the Russian media has such a hold over them - in this day of…

The brainwash level of russians is indeed incredible. The whole propaganda is just sick shit: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/medvedev-says-russia-is... I am really curious how it is achieved. Everybody there had/has some relatives that fled to USA or Europe after Cold War and the information should circulate. At least in my theory. But no, satan, drug addicts and NATO forces.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#100

Post by JohnFen »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #83
JohnFen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since it is constantly ignored by American media. It is? It seems to be talked about a fair bit for being ignored.

If you ask Americans how long the war in Ukraine has been going on, they'll almost all say “about a year”, whereas Ukrainians would say “about nine years”.

And so? Most Americans barely pay attention to the news, or just pay attention to a very narrow selection of news outlets. I don't think you can judge whether or not something is being reported based on what most Americans know.
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