Live data from Hacker News

The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

npr.org

91–100 of 915 posts

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#91

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer.

I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#92

A lot of these threads devolve into "have you tried paying more" but I'd also like to highlight "have you actually tried telling Gen Z that". I'm 35, from basically as early as I can remember until sophmore year of college I was told constantly by every adult (and I mean every adult not just the ones that had degrees) in my life to go to college, get a degree, any degree. So yeah I went to college. It was aggressivel…

I guess being a poor kid who went to college in the 90s and chose his major before he had the internet had its perks.

I never considered studying the things that actually interested me because I knew they were going to end up in dead end careers, and I didn't want to be broke my entire life. It's the same reason I didn't go to the top schools that accepted me. Hell, I didn't even go to the top schools that offered me scholarships because I was afraid of the cost. It's also why I ignore the pleas of people who came from substantially better backgrounds during the internet era and claim that they couldn't have known better and deserve debt forgiveness.

They SHOULD have known better. They had every resource to know better.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#93
post #91

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

> it might be a bad area or a bad employer.

Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies.

My uncle is a welder, has a lot of specializations including some underwater stuff. No shortage of offers... for 6 weeks of work in nowhere-ville, often requiring you to supply your own transport and housing. 3 months in FL, 6 months in NC, 8 weeks in GA. And they all pay crap.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#94

A lot of these threads devolve into "have you tried paying more" but I'd also like to highlight "have you actually tried telling Gen Z that". I'm 35, from basically as early as I can remember until sophmore year of college I was told constantly by every adult (and I mean every adult not just the ones that had degrees) in my life to go to college, get a degree, any degree. So yeah I went to college. It was aggressivel…

I guess being a poor kid who went to college in the 90s and chose his major before he had the internet had its perks. I never considered studying the things that actually interested me because I knew they were going to end up in dead end careers, and I didn't want to be broke my entire life. It's the same reason I didn't go to the top schools that accepted me. Hell, I didn't even go to the top schools that offered me…

I think you (and sibling mfer) are commenting on "any degree" instead of my point that "maybe people don't go into the trades because they spend ~18 emotionally formative years of their lives being told to go to college" vs the idea "maybe people don't go into the trades due to wages offered" (which, mind you, I don't mean to discount).

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#95
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the case for all trades people. It might be a bad area or a bad employer. I've know trades folks who are electricians, plumbers, carpenters, work in road construction, etc. They typically work reasonable hours, have medical, and are paid at or above the median income for where they live. They didn't rack up debt getting into this either. This is not a bad deal for many people.

> it might be a bad area or a bad employer. Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies. My uncle is a welder, has a lot of specializations including some underwater stuff. No shortage of offers... for 6 weeks of work in nowhere-ville, often requiring you to supply your own transport and housing. 3 months in FL, 6 months in NC, 8 weeks in GA. And they…

> Outside of big cities, there may not be enough demand, esp. consistent demand, to justify good pay and bennies.

I guess that depends how far outside cities. In the suburbs there is demand.

There is a shortage of trades and many trades folks are older in age. When they retire there isn't the back fill behind them. And all of this is happening as the population is growing.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#96

A lot of these threads devolve into "have you tried paying more" but I'd also like to highlight "have you actually tried telling Gen Z that". I'm 35, from basically as early as I can remember until sophmore year of college I was told constantly by every adult (and I mean every adult not just the ones that had degrees) in my life to go to college, get a degree, any degree. So yeah I went to college. It was aggressivel…

I'm a millennial. First we were told that we needed the college degree for a job. Any degree would do. So everyone went and got a college degree, and since so many people had it it wasn't a status symbol anymore, so that wasn't enough to get a good middle class job. And then a bunch of people were told they shouldn't have gotten those degrees and they were worthless.

Then we were told to go into STEM. So lots of people went into STEM even though they didn't want to, there are not enough STEM jobs for all of them, and in some cases the reason there are always jobs available is because they chew everyone up and spit them out (looking at you, Amazon). I got lucky. A lot of folks did not.

Then we were told what we really need is nurses. So folks went to nursing school in droves. I'm not sure where we are with that, because it seems like hospitals still never have enough nurses but that those folks that went to nursing school also didn't manage to improve their situation much.

Now we're told the money and demand is in trades. And that might be true, and that might remain true, but we've been given the wrong advice for so long we just stopped listening.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#97
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of "barely middle-class" jobs, they choose no job? That will turn out well for them.

I mean, have you seen how much pay has gone up in low-skilled jobs? There are signs at all the local businesses in my area offering $15+ an hour for cashiers and fry cooks and whatnot. The same kind of jobs I worked 7-8 years ago for $8 an hour. They are taking advantage of supply and demand to force jobs to pay them a closer-to-fair wage, instead of selling their time for less than it's worth and perpetuating the pr…

>I mean, have you seen how much pay has gone up in low-skilled jobs? There are signs at all the local businesses in my area offering $15+ an hour for cashiers and fry cooks and whatnot. The same kind of jobs I worked 7-8 years ago for $8 an hour. They are taking advantage of supply and demand to force jobs to pay them a closer-to-fair wage, instead of selling their time for less than it's worth and perpetuating the problem indefinitely.

Those jobs also result in products being more costly, so that the current low end wages are actually lower nominal value.

I find people using terms like "fair wage" end up making wishes and policies that end up hurting the poor, not helping them, by not understanding economics.

Fair is what a person can command from competing for jobs, and jobs competing for workers. Anything else ends up unsustainable, which usually ends up hurting the least able workers.

Mandating wages leads to lower employment - so sure you can help some by pricing others out of work.

>To be fair, I do agree that on an individual level there are tons of people screwing themselves over and messing up their lives, being a burdon on their parents or whoever ends up supporting them financially, etc.

Agreed - but who it will hurt the most is future workers, including them, as the economy is not as good and then there are less resources for everyone, including them. Of course they will continue to blame a "system" when they got what they earned.

>I do think we've seen the curve move towards it's lower end recently

Total remuneration, even at the low end, is higher than nearly all of history. And post-tax transfer it's much higher.

For example, the lowest 20% of households saw their post-tax income go from $18,900 in 1979 to $32,800 in 2018 [1], and that's not even including that households on average have shrunk in size. Per worker the returns are even higher.

A good analogy: if you tell kids that blue eyed kids are the devil, they will act like it, pass laws, and believe it. If you tell people immigrants are killing them or taking jobs, people start to believe it, and enact laws that hurt all. Similarly, if you tell enough people how bad the economy is, regardless of solid evidence, they will act like it, and in the case of an economy, they bring the doom to pass.

>I can't see any reason to blame all individuals within an entire generation

I wouldn't blame them all. But if enough act a way to make their economic outcomes worse, then all of them will suffer over time. And they'll take others along for the ride.

[1] https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/historical-income...

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#98
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's weird right, how can we make homes and rent cheaper without more supply of homes?

If you have speculators (foreign/corporate) buying all the new supply then does that really help in the long run? We have more vacant homes than we have homeless, for example. What would help is restricting foreign speculation and appropriately taxing corporate ownership of homes. A good example is what's going on in Canada [1] & Vancouver [2]. It's not like other countries haven't made meaningful attempts to address…

What if we convince them (and I think this is true) that this will make the stock market go up? A lot of real estate in "developed" countries is bought up due to capital flight to relative stability. If that weren't an option, the money would go into U.S. equities instead.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of "barely middle-class" jobs, they choose no job? That will turn out well for them.

You’d be surprised. Sometimes quality of life is better spent not working when you can lean on family and friends Or your own small retirement fund. Not saying someone’s life choices are right or wrong one way or the other in this case. I’m very grateful for my position but would be lying if I didn’t say I day dreamt occasionally about quitting work and living like a backpacker.

>Sometimes quality of life is better spent not working when you can lean on family and friends Or your own small retirement fund.

And then when enough do, and the result becomes a lifetime of un/under-employment, then they want the retirements or lives of those before or around them, who do you think will pick up the slack?

Sure, quit and be a backpacker. Doing it a while is fun, probably even healthy, but a lifetime of it will not end well for many people. And generally if enough people do it, then society as a whole will have to pay for it.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#100

Same labor shortage as everywhere that the government likes to pretend doesn't exist. 10 million working-age men can't or won't work. Of the ones willing to work, almost none want to spend their time learning skills for back-breaking, barely-middle class skills jobs which they'll be forced to retire from at 55 because their knees give out. Same answer for the shortage as everywhere that the economists don't want to h…

Fitting pipes together is not "back breaking". We're not talking about framing or roofing, in the contracting world plumbing is a light duty skilled trade that anyone with half a brain can earn a 6-figure income on. If you take care of yourself and wear protective equipment, you won't have a problem with your knees in middle age. There's no "forced retirement", someone working as an independent contractor for 25 year…

Older generation complains about newer generation's work ethic and goals, news at 11.

Seriously, this has been done since forever, and it's such a tired trope.

And why the hell shouldn't they want to be influencers? They're responding to the world they've been handed. Why is that different than "I want to be an NBA player", or rock and roll singer before that, or baseball player before that?

Gen Z will be just fine, even if Gen X doesn't understand how.

Post reply on HN