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US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

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Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#91

Post by bombolo »

marricks wrote: post #38
muxator wrote: post #25

How would the US react to the same request from EU's police? Would they give direct access to their people's biometric data? Conversely, what would the EU do if that same request came from another nation instead of the USA? What about Brazil, Japan, China?

Given the US has army bases all in and around Europe, more than any European country, I bet the US wouldn't comply. It's rarely talked about, but you gotta imagine, the fact the US controls most of the land and sea is a big factor in how diplomatic issues are resolved. I don't think this is a great thing, btw.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisi_di_Sigonella

In the 80s USA sent troops in italy to kidnap a terrorist that had surrendered himself to italy. They had to call up all the available carabinieri on the island to counter the USA troops.

Not one has in mind with "allied nation".

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#92

Post by pydry »

nixgeek wrote: post #21

Probably the most interesting part of this is if states don’t integrate by 2027 they will no longer be eligible for the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). That adds a lot of friction for citizens of that state to travel to the U.S. for any reason.

The EU should reciprocate on that threat.

$350 and a minimum six month wait for an appointment at an EU consulate if a congressperson wants to vacation in Italy.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#93

Post by narag »

hardlianotion wrote: post #23

One question that always seems to be unclear and insufficiently negotiated is reciprocity. What is the US going to offer in return. If they do offer to reciprocate, it actually needs to be delivered before the deal is live. That said, I think it is a shitty deal for these leaky, insecure, bad faith entities to be able to negotiate off to the side with our sensitive personal data like this.

What is the US going to offer in return.

I suspect, without proof but read next paragraphs for some evidence, that the US offer their surveillance net. If EU police is searching for someone, even in our own territory, it's easier for US intelligence agencies to locate and eavesdrop on the suspect with the tech that we know.

El Pollo Carvajal [0] was arrested in Madrid, September 2021. Although it was our police that made the arrest, it was the US that provided his exact location. Some say that local authorities had no desire to catch the man, actually he had already been arrested in 2019 and "disappeared" apparently due to some bureaucratic error. If I'm not mistaken, he's awaiting extradition.

The end of terrorist band ETA [1] (that Wikipedia charmingly defines as "separatist group") happened after a continuous string of high-profile arrests in France. Again, our neighbours haven't been always very collaborative, but had no option when alerted of exact location of people in the Interpol watchlist.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Carvajal

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_(separatist_group)

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#94

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #28

I sincerely hope that the EU will give the appropriate but unprintable response to this request. At the time the biometric data was first collected plenty of people warned about this exact thing and we were repeatedly assured that it would never happen. Let's see if that is still true today. Never is such a long time...

[deleted]

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#95

Post by bombolo »

johnywalks wrote: post #90
marricks wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the US has army bases all in and around Europe, more than any European country, I bet the US wouldn't comply. It's rarely talked about, but you gotta imagine, the fact the US controls most of the land and sea is a big factor in how diplomatic issues are resolved. I don't think this is a great thing, btw.

> US controls the land and seas of most of the Earth They do so with the help of allies which they seem to forget.

And by "help" you mean harass civilians and get away with it, and bomb the middle east.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#96

Post by pessimizer »

InTheArena wrote: post #62

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

I'm not sure that hyperbole is possible when you're discussing the necessity of having worldwide biometric "terrorist" lists that countries like Saudi Arabia would participate in.

-----

edit: How would you code "terrorism through public demonstrations of driving while female" or "terrorism through being Yemen?"

"Terrorism though applying for a marriage license after being mildly critical in the WaPo."

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#97

Post by miguelazo »

flanflan wrote: post #64
hardlianotion wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we should decouple a little bit.

Probably, and the EU was talking a big game about that a few years ago. But between Nordstream 2 and the Ukraine war the EU seems to have shown how willing it actually is to decouple...

Exactly. Even when the harm to Europe is as blatant as the examples you cited, the cowardly leadership does nothing. This lack of representation for citizens' interests will lead to a lot of resentment and perhaps even extremism, as it has in the past.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#98

Post by bombolo »

pydry wrote: post #92
nixgeek wrote: post #21

Probably the most interesting part of this is if states don’t integrate by 2027 they will no longer be eligible for the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). That adds a lot of friction for citizens of that state to travel to the U.S. for any reason.

The EU should reciprocate on that threat. $350 and a minimum six month wait for an appointment at an EU consulate if a congressperson wants to vacation in Italy.

They'd just come on an official visit to one of their navy bases in italy.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#99

Post by cm2187 »

nixgeek wrote: post #21

Probably the most interesting part of this is if states don’t integrate by 2027 they will no longer be eligible for the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). That adds a lot of friction for citizens of that state to travel to the U.S. for any reason.

To be honest I am already avoiding to travel to the US as much as I can. No appetite for hours of queues at security and passport controls. Their airports are worst than many third world countries.

Re: US Government demands direct police access to European biometric data [pdf]

#100

Post by wolfi1 »

InTheArena wrote: post #62

Reading through the slides, it appears that what has been discussed is sharing signature and fingerprints for travel into the USA. There is a lot of weasel words, but it's probably worth nothing that the USA currently collects this information for foreign nationals coming into the USA (as the EU does for Americans traveling into the EU). This is being done in the context of a DB query as part of the e VISA applicatio…

the problem with such treaties is they are very shady in their wording and if there is a possibility to interpret it in this direction it will be interpreted in this direction
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