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Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

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Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#91
post #34
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't 'recommend' it either. But there's a difference between 'not recommending' and 'effectively prohibiting via a wealth test'. We don't prevent people from spending their entire net worth, and then some via loans, on poker or state lottery tickets. Nor do we include wealth tests against investing in public stocks, derivatives, real-estate, or dubious collectables – all of which can also 'go to zero' quite qui…

Public stocks and the like are heavily regulated. If we let random people invest in startups, a bunch of people would get scammed out of their money, then there would be calls for more regulation to protect investors, which would only serve to hurt startups. Meanwhile, none of those little investors would make any money because the median startup is a bad investment (vs the median public company, which is an ok inves…

Public stocks and the like are heavily regulated, yes, and they can still drive anyone's bankroll to zero. And via leverage or iteration you can make them as risky and rapid-loss-prone as private investments (or even outright scams). See for example: forex, real-estate, and casino ads in every medium.

So this rule protects fools from losing their money in private investing, but they still have a thousand other ways to lose their money. Meanwhile, this rule also prevents lots of people of moderate means from making wise, moderate investments in areas they know well.

These sorts of from-the-masses, for-the-masses investments wouldn't necessarily follow the valley hit-driven model of "nearly all of the startup returns come from a small number of outliers".

But even if they did, why shouldn't people of all wealth levels be able to take their chances on finding an outlier? The current rule essentially says: the very best investments are only, by legal rule, allowed to the already-wealthy. Everyone else, here, buy a scratch-off.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress has to do that, the executive branch can't. To the extent that the executive branch is streamlining the existing immigration system, they're being derided as amnesty-offering traitors by the xenophobic know-nothings that want Berlin Wall 2.0.

You might want to reconsider broadly slurring a bunch of your fellow citizens as "know-nothings" while writing a comment seemingly ignorant of the fact that the Berlin Wall was designed mostly to keep people in .

Indeed, "Apartheid 2.0", not "Berlin Wall 2.0".

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to reconsider broadly slurring a bunch of your fellow citizens as "know-nothings" while writing a comment seemingly ignorant of the fact that the Berlin Wall was designed mostly to keep people in .

Actually, probably unintentionally, Know-Nothings isn't a bad term. The Know-Nothings were an anti-immigrant political party in the 1840's and 50's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

Indeed so. They were named as such not because they didn't know anything, but because of their habit of saying 'I know nothing' if questioned about their political activities. Immigration is kind of my specialty knowledge domain, actually :-)

As for the Berlin Wall crack in the grandparent, of course I know the Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in. That doesn't stop people who want to militarize the border with Mexico from explicitly holding it up as a model. Read the comments on any Wall Street Journal story about immigration and you can be pretty sure of seeing it cited approvingly within a few pages.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some clarity and contact with reality: "The bailout was a mess" The efforts of big gumment to get people who couldn't afford a house into one that blew a housing bubble that popped and created the worst financial and economic disaster since the Great Depression "was a mess". The 'bailout', that is, the TARP program was not "a mess" at all but a grand success: (1) TARP made money. All or nearly all the money has been…

Couldn't agree more. It definitely is a 'populist' trend to bash TARP and 'bailing out Wall Street', and while I do agree that the 15% capital gains tax needs to be raised (along with closing various loopholes that financiers and oil companies use to pay lower taxes), that oft-repeated position doesn't hold water. It's infuriating because people don't understand when the gov't actually acts in their best interest - e…

There's more!

There was GM!

Some of the money the US Treasury 'invested' in GM may not get paid back.

So, we might say that GM got 'bailed out'.

Hmm. As I understand it, there was a little more to the story:

One approach to GM was just to let it go through an ordinary bankruptcy. But DC didn't want that.

Why? My understanding is that in an ordinary bankruptcy, GM would have gotten off the hook in their labor contracts to pay for retirees' health and pensions but, then, by law, the US Federal Government, that is, taxpayers, would have to make up the difference.

So, if all these guesses at the facts are correct, then, net, the 'arranged' bankruptcy essentially wiped out the stockholders, cost the Treasury some money, gave much of GM to the UAW pension and health care funds, and got the US Treasury off the hook for propping up ('bailing out') the UAW pension and health funds, then maybe, net, the Treasury came out best possible!

So, when there is screaming about the 'bailout' of GM, remember that the final arrangement was likely the "lesser of two weevils".

For the GM stockholders, well, GM messed up big time. So, first cut, in simple terms, it was up to the owners, that is, the stockholders to take the loss.

For a real 'bailout', there is Solyndra, ESPECIALLY after the renegotiation that had the taxpayers go from being first in line to get paid to being last in line to get paid.

And AIG was a real 'bailout'. The idea of bailing out AIG was to stop the spread of the sickness just at AIG. In part AIG was a bailout because it was not at all clear that AIG could repay. Last I heard, AIG may actually, finally, by slowly selling off everything it had, including its pens and pencils in Hong Kong, be able to pay back all the Federal bailout money. It was still a bailout.

But TARP, no, that was a vulture capital loan from the lender of last resort, the US Treasury, not 'help', not a 'gift', not really at risk, and not really a 'bailout'.

Of course, in all of this, the real villain is DC and what it did, especially having Fannie and Freddie back junk paper, in blowing the housing bubble. Why was the bubble so bad? Because during the price rising, there was a lot of dirty mortgage manipulations going on. But mostly the problem was that when the bubble burst, the 'reserve capital' of much of our banking system was wiped out and about 50% of the houses in the US went 'underwater'. So, we drained the financial capital lubricating oil out of the crankcase of our economic engine; the engine stopped; and millions of people in the US were seriously hurt.

Here's the situation: Banks will make loans on assets. But if the banks make enough loans on just some focused assets, then the asset values will rise which will let the banks make more loans on those assets, ..., and we blow a bubble. Then when the last loan is made, prices start to fall; the banks don't get paid back; the financial system dies; and the economy dies. So, really, don't want banks making loans on 'financial assets'. Well, for stocks, after the Great Depression, we stopped that. But with housing, essentially the same scam got started again, with the help of Fannie and Freddie.

Fannie and Freddie, along with the Federal Reserve, along with major parts of DC cheering it all on, were the real problem. The last time we did that, a wacko house painter and some of his buddies killed 50 million people, or maybe it was 100 million, I can't remember just exactly.

We shouldn't do such things. The media should keep us informed so that we don't.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#95
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US and Canadian government spend the same amount per person on healthcare but Canada has universal health care. On average the US and Canadian healthcare systems provide vary similar outcomes on average. So, clearly more government involvement is an option. But, so is less the US could save a ridiculous amount of money if we could stop wasting it on end of life care that proves little to no benefit. Healthcare is…

Canadian here: Your post is kind of at odds with the final question you posed. You can have the money AND not sacrifice health outcomes. As you said, Cdn and US governments spend the same amount of money for the same outcomes.

Also Canada has dramatically less ethnic diversity, at least if I'm reading Wikipedia correctly.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, probably unintentionally, Know-Nothings isn't a bad term. The Know-Nothings were an anti-immigrant political party in the 1840's and 50's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

Indeed so. They were named as such not because they didn't know anything, but because of their habit of saying 'I know nothing' if questioned about their political activities. Immigration is kind of my specialty knowledge domain, actually :-) As for the Berlin Wall crack in the grandparent, of course I know the Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in. That doesn't stop people who want to militarize the border with Me…

So it should be easy for you to provide a link to one.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#97
post #21

Laissez faire, telle devrait être la devise de toute puissance publique, depuis que le monde est civilisé ... Détestable principe que celui de ne vouloir grandir que par l'abaissement de nos voisins! Il n'y a que la méchanceté et la malignité du coeur de satisfaites dans ce principe, et l’intérêt y est opposé. Laissez faire, morbleu! Laissez faire!! (Trans: "Leave it be, that should be the motto of all public powers,…

There have been developments in our knowledge of the market since 1680 (when that quote was uttered).

I was going to respond with something along the lines of "how's that working out for you" but really Alan Greenspan is still a staunch capitalist that would more or less agree with the quote above. If anyone has had the benefit of studying the market since that time it would be him.

Edit: After a minute of posting this I've realized I've committed a logical fallacy, Appeal to Authority. Granted I was responded to a comment based on a logical fallacy (Appeal to Time?) but I would like to expand my thoughts.

The best way to allocate resources is to have knowledgeable parties commence in free exchange. The role of government is to ensure that force and fraud are absent from the marketplace. If there is any further goal of the government it could possibly be encouraging the spread of information, although that is rife with conflicts of interest.

Even if Obama's fund nets a positive return, the cost at which it does is unknown. Pumping money into sectors of the economy mis-aligns investment. The free market is the best allocator of wealth.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#98
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a side note, you really don't want an executive branch that can do that (fixing the immigration and patent systems). edit: sorry if it didn't end up as clear as it should

Works OK for countries with parliamentary democracies.

Parliamentary democracies still have distinct executive branches.

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to reconsider broadly slurring a bunch of your fellow citizens as "know-nothings" while writing a comment seemingly ignorant of the fact that the Berlin Wall was designed mostly to keep people in .

Indeed, "Apartheid 2.0", not "Berlin Wall 2.0".

I was thinking "Hadrian's Wall 2.0".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian%27s_Wall

Re: Obama Announces $2B Fund for Startups

#100
post #21

Laissez faire, telle devrait être la devise de toute puissance publique, depuis que le monde est civilisé ... Détestable principe que celui de ne vouloir grandir que par l'abaissement de nos voisins! Il n'y a que la méchanceté et la malignité du coeur de satisfaites dans ce principe, et l’intérêt y est opposé. Laissez faire, morbleu! Laissez faire!! (Trans: "Leave it be, that should be the motto of all public powers,…

There have been developments in our knowledge of the market since 1680 (when that quote was uttered).

The statement is very general though. I think it suffices. The economy is not a zero sum game. To deny that today, I think, is to lack sophistication, not gain it.
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