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Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

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Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#91

Post by marssaxman »

gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

I think you have just convinced me to buy German cars exclusively from now on; I very much do not want a car which is "just a computer with wheels" - the less software in the car, the better!

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#92

Post by brianwawok »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80
lacker wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team stru…

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

And the US will continue to eat their lunch. How many high impact software companies are coming out of Germany?

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#93

Post by aksss »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80
lacker wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team stru…

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

but free, ammaright?

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#94

Post by rad_gruchalski »

aksss wrote: post #93
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

but free , ammaright?

I don’t understand your question. What do you mean by “but free”?

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#95

Post by im_down_w_otp »

prng2021 wrote: post #83

I hate that auto companies are trying to copy Tesla’s awful product design philosophy of controlling everything via a screen and software. It’s the worst thing to happen to the industry since its inception in my opinion. 1. We’re now introducing so many brand new problems to automobiles or tremendously exacerbating existing ones. I’m referring to problems inherent to all complex software. Bugs, updates causing variou…

This is basically what had us choose the Polestar 2 over a Model 3.

The Polestar 2 felt like someone with a lot of intent and diligence sat down in the cockpit of the vehicle and asked some flavor of, "Should this feels like a traditional car or should this feel like new technology?" about every single little thing.

The UX of the car is Swedish "functionalism" at its finest. We drove a VW, a Tesla, a BMW, a Hyundai, a Kia, a Porsche, a Ford, and a Chevrolet too. For both my spouse and I it wasn't even a close race. We ordered the Polestar. We took delivery of it a couple weeks ago, and even though the $7,500 tax credit expired after the recent legislation passed in the US, I would gladly pay $7,500 more for it than its competitors.

The drive feel and the cabin UX are the parts of any car that you're constantly interacting with. To me those two factors outweighed pretty much everything else.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#96

Post by gumby »

zizee wrote: post #84
astrange wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO the only countries that really understand software at both a technical and business value add level are US, AUS, Canada, China, with India less so but in that group and Japan just barely getting in. What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? Besides that, I’ve only heard of developers in Aus/Canada/Japan being well paid if they work for US companies like Google or are parked there…

> What are Australia and Canada doing in there? Australia has… Atlassian? There are plenty of wellknown tech/software companies originating in Australia. Xero, Freelancer, Canva, REA Group, MYOB, Airtasker, BigCommerce, Afterpay... Many foreign software companies have development teams in Aus as well. Google, Zendesk, Square, Squarespace spring to mind. https://www.smartcompany.com.au/technology/the-top-50-tech-c...

Google maps is from Australia

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#97

Post by gumby »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80
lacker wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team stru…

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

This is the model for the tron/itron os in Japan. Most devices you buy from Japan run itron.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#98

Post by rad_gruchalski »

gumby wrote: post #97
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects. And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. T…

This is the model for the tron/itron os in Japan. Most devices you buy from Japan run itron.

Yeah, I still cannot get over that answer.

I mean, Fraunhofer is a major German research org and it should be in their business to promote such solutions. To fire something like this out, in front of the people who definitely attended those universities, that was shocking.

To this day I don’t know if I was simply naive or if my question was stupid in any way.

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#99

Post by gumby »

kareemsabri wrote: post #82
sgjohnson wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not very familiar with Australia. But thinking that high paying company like Atlassian which produces a very crappy software which I unfortunately deal daily. To me it shows high pay does not guarantee good quality software which many(not you) seems to be arguing here. That's a different problem. That's because you, the user, are not a customer of Atlassian. Companies and their micromanagers, however, love JIRA. Mi…

> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers. Apple has less than 10% of the PC market. What do you think the rest of them are running?

The point is that the majority of their revenue comes from corporate enterprise. This is one reason Ballmer didn’t understand the iPhone: his customers (corporate IT) wanted the windows phone but no actual users did.

Microsoft was taken by surprise by the “BYO movement”

Re: Porsche boss faces software woes keeping VW a step behind Tesla

#100

Post by userbinator »

marssaxman wrote: post #91
gumby wrote: post #15

I've been following this debacle in the German press and I think there's a structural problem that they will struggle to dig their way out of. And by "they" I don't mean just VW, but much of European industry. Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important Let's start with cars. Back before cars were just comput…

I think you have just convinced me to buy German cars exclusively from now on; I very much do not want a car which is "just a computer with wheels" - the less software in the car, the better!

On the other hand, "German overengineering" (the mechanical side) is also a thing. Not as in built with huge margins and robustness, but intricate and overly complex.
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