Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#91

Post by epscylonb » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:20 PM UTC

bigB wrote: post #41

maximusprime wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not the problem though. The problem is people being offended by it or taking the bait. Ban, ignore, report, shun etc... Setting up a geek feminist movement is pretty much the worst thing you could do if you wanted the abuse to stop.

I don't know about you, but that's a poor and weak excuse. Would your be offended If I said that to your wife, daughter, mother in person. If someone said that to my wife in person I would break their nose, so why should online be any different.

The statement (insult, trollbait, whatever you want to call it) doesn't make sense.

I would be a bit unhappy and would try and get away from the guy, but I wouldn't challenge him on it and try and start an altercation.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#92

Post by scott_s » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:20 PM UTC

maximusprime wrote: post #88

scott_s wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think they do. And if you think they do, I don't think you understand the scale of what she's talking about. It's linked several times in this thread. Please read it.

I've read it. There are billions of disturbed weird people in the world. Lots of them make it online. This is one of them. It's a shame she let it bother her.

So it's her fault that a continued campaign of harassment "bothered" her? Have you ever experienced anything like that, or are you just guessing what it would feel like?

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#93

Post by monochromatic » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:22 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #92

maximusprime wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read it. There are billions of disturbed weird people in the world. Lots of them make it online. This is one of them. It's a shame she let it bother her.

So it's her fault that a continued campaign of harassment "bothered" her? Have you ever experienced anything like that, or are you just guessing what it would feel like?

> Have you ever experienced anything like that, or are you just guessing what it would feel like?

White-knighting aside, have you?

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#94

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:23 PM UTC

pnathan wrote: post #59

I read a private blog of a lady in the games industry, and the level of ordure and harassment she gets is simply unbelievable. It's well beyond anything in the 'people are jerks, suck it up' level. I can well believe Skud got sick of it and is doing other things with her life. I'm going to come right out and say it - if you, or someone you know - has a penchant for writing these sorts of harassing emails, it needs to…

Foul language and harassment in the games industry? I'm shocked. Perhaps it's just due to white male privilege that I've never been called a "gaaaayyyy nig faggz" while playing online games?

[edit: sarcasm. Like anyone who's ever delivered a headshot, I've been told "fu homo chink".]

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#95

Post by maximusprime » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:24 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #89

A couple of points if I may: 1. If you speak at conferences, especially about a non-technical subject like "women in FOSS projects" (which is more likely to get sexists riled up), you are going to get unwanted attention. Pretty much every speaker who speaks on a controversial, or non-technical, or just media-glamorized topic is going to get harassed - if not hacked. It happens all the time to men and i'm sure it happ…

Well said.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#96

Post by monochromatic » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:25 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #65

monochromatic wrote: post #52

Trolls exist on the internet. Bayley is just supporting negative stereotypes about how women can't handle the pressure when she lets a troll get the best of her and changes her whole life because of him.

Excuse me? At what point do you stop calling someone a "troll" and start calling them a "stalker"? Perhaps the harassment she received was so much that changing her whole life greatly improves her quality of life. Is she still "just supporting negative stereotypes" then?

Stalker? She should get the police involved then.

Oh wait, she did, and they weren't interested because it didn't rise to that level.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#97

Post by rohit89 » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:25 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #56

How do you "quit the tech industry"? Start again from scratch from the bottom in... What?

She mentions in her blog post that she is not completely quitting tech. From her blog,

>>I’m particularly interested in using open tech to preserve and promote independent music, so you’ll continue to see me around in many of my usual tech haunts.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#98

Post by __alexs » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:26 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #89

A couple of points if I may: 1. If you speak at conferences, especially about a non-technical subject like "women in FOSS projects" (which is more likely to get sexists riled up), you are going to get unwanted attention. Pretty much every speaker who speaks on a controversial, or non-technical, or just media-glamorized topic is going to get harassed - if not hacked. It happens all the time to men and i'm sure it happ…

What exactly is your point? People shouldn't whine that other people are bastards? It seems more than a bit like victim blaming to me.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#99

Post by maximusprime » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:28 PM UTC

scott_s wrote: post #92

maximusprime wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read it. There are billions of disturbed weird people in the world. Lots of them make it online. This is one of them. It's a shame she let it bother her.

So it's her fault that a continued campaign of harassment "bothered" her? Have you ever experienced anything like that, or are you just guessing what it would feel like?

Well, she didn't do herself any favors by talking at conferences about women in tech, or setting up a feminist movement. If you wanted to attract abuse, that's a good way to go about it. It should be expected.

Why didn't she talk at conferences about code?

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#100

Post by alttag » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 3:29 PM UTC

uriel wrote: post #63

alttag wrote: post #17

Unfortunately, this is not the first time this sort of reprehensible behavior has cost the tech community good talent. Kathy Sierra comes to mind. Other notables (male and female) have recently removed their presence from the internet. Although it isn't always clear why, I'd speculate some sort of harassment was at play there too.

Welcome to the Internet. As Paul Vixie pointed out ages ago: "The Internet is not for sissies." Trolls are almost as old as the net, and they are not going to disappear without something short of a big-brother state that makes the Great Firewall Of China look like kids play. So better get used to it. Also remember: "Liberty resides in the rights of that person whose views you find most odious." — John Stuart Mill [Di…

Saying "that's just the way things are" is no excuse for tolerating the sort of behavior under discussion here.

You're correct that it comes with the territory, but that doesn't absolve organizations (and governments) of writing and enforcing policies to mitigate the damage done by harassment. Nor should we excuse away an obligation to repudiate harassment when we encounter it. Saying it's status quo won't fix anything.

Regarding the John Stuart Mill quote above: I agree. It's not the views of the people in question that offend me, it's their alleged actions. Harassment is not free speech; it doesn't attack ideas, it attacks people.