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Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

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Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#91

Post by ConstantineXVI »

technoslut wrote: post #70
gujk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICS makes preinstalled apps removable? Even one Google preinstalls, like Maps and Gallery and Twitter?

You can hide it within preferences which is probably the main issue with many users. From what I've seen these apps matter very little in terms of storage.

Newer (late 2010+) phones have finally learned to start putting a reasonable amount of onboard NAND, so app storage isn't near the problem it used to be. The "disable" feature sounds like it also `chmod -x`'s the app in question so it can't start, not just hide away the icon.

The one bit I'm worried about is if carriers are going to be able to comment out the feature (and the data controls, which I'm far more concerned about getting removed)

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#92

Post by w0utert »

chollida1 wrote: post #78
gujk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has all the drivers it needs. The real difference is that Android systems are locked down in ways more annoying to circumvent than your average Windows OEM junkware install. It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS.

> It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS. Can you enlighten me as to what it means to "crossgrade the OS". Native english speaker and I've never heard the term :)

I'd imagine he means wiping the Windows install and installing some other OS, e.g. Linux, BSD or OSx86 or something. Not really an upgrade or downgrade of the Windows installation the machine shipped with. I think crossgrade is a nice way to put it ;-)

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#93

Post by raganwald »

chollida1 wrote: post #78
gujk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has all the drivers it needs. The real difference is that Android systems are locked down in ways more annoying to circumvent than your average Windows OEM junkware install. It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS.

> It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS. Can you enlighten me as to what it means to "crossgrade the OS". Native english speaker and I've never heard the term :)

Linux :-)

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#94

Post by loire280 »

methodin wrote: post #85
nasmorn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would you also like to do it for your mom and dad and wife and aunt and neighbor? If Android requires free geek labor to live up to its potential I sure am against it, because it would be my free labor that Google plans with here.

Your mom, dad, wife aunt and neighbor wouldn't even know what the hell you are talking about so being on version X has no particular significance to anyone outside of the tech community.

Developers care. What use are the new shiny features in Ice Cream Sandwich when I need to make my app compatible with phones on Eclair or Froyo to access a sufficiently broad portion of the Android install base? If developers are wary of developing for Android - especially the latest-and-greatest - that will affect the satisfaction of regular users.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#95

Post by jrabone »

camtarn wrote: post #75
technoslut wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can hide it within preferences which is probably the main issue with many users. From what I've seen these apps matter very little in terms of storage.

Depends on the phone and how much crapware is installed. I ended up having to flash my UK Orange-branded HTC Desire because they'd installed so much that there was only enough storage left to install a few user apps. Newer phones are much better off in this regard.

Ha. Non-Orange phones are much better off in this regard (at least in the UK). And non-branded phones are even better.

I don't think carriers have realised just how much ill-will their crapware/crippling branding process engenders. In the past, they created a market for tools like Davinci, even though I resent having to use something like that to get MY hardware back into a sane state (and risk bricking it in the process). Now, they're pushing people towards rooting their Android phone. I haven't yet rooted my new (non-contract-encumbered) S2, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. When I do, I'll be sure to install my usual selection of advert-filtering, revenue-denying proxies while I'm at it...

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#96

Post by [deleted] »

chollida1 wrote: post #78
gujk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has all the drivers it needs. The real difference is that Android systems are locked down in ways more annoying to circumvent than your average Windows OEM junkware install. It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS.

> It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS. Can you enlighten me as to what it means to "crossgrade the OS". Native english speaker and I've never heard the term :)

[deleted]

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#97

Post by Fingel »

gujk wrote: post #56
adestefan wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the same thing that happens in the PC space. Since Microsoft doesn't make hardware they or third parties must write drivers and support everything that people put out there. Where OS X only needs to support the devices that Apple creates. The difference is that Windows is such an entrenched platform that the third parties are willing to step up to the plate and write the drivers for the PC. Now the question is…

Android has all the drivers it needs. The real difference is that Android systems are locked down in ways more annoying to circumvent than your average Windows OEM junkware install. It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS.

I'd argue its just as easy/easier to "crossgrade the OS" (whatever that means) on an android phone as a PC. Step 1: get a .zip from http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ Step 2: Place it on your SD card. Step 3: Reboot phone, hold down the power button, select "install update". Now you have an android device with the latest software, no bloatware, and a host of other awesome features.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#98

Post by w0utert »

kalleboo wrote: post #59

How many PC users are still using XP, a 10 year old OS? If the version of the OS you have still works, it still works. The real issue here is security updates. Google need a way to update core OS component that aren't affected by the manufacturer's UI skinning.

To be fair, how many of these XP installs are still running a pre-SP1 version of the OS? Probably not much. Windows XP might be 10 years old, but it went through 3 major service packs that plugged many security holes, upgraded many frameworks and libraries, etc. Visually XP SP3 might not be different from the first Windows XP version, but under the hood, a lot has been fixed or upgraded. If I remember correctly, XP is still getting security updates to this date.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#99

Post by mquander »

billjings wrote: post #87
SandB0x wrote: post #83

There's a major point that can be added to the Why Don’t Android Phones Get Updated? section: Third party skins and interfaces. HTC's Sense, Motorola's Motoblur and co can only introduce an engineering overhead and delays in upgrading. I would much rather they concentrated on making awsome hardware and leaving the UI to Google, rather than attempting to differentiate themselves in this way.

If I were Motorola or Samsung, though, there's no way I'd do that. Without differentiation, you're selling a commodity product. If you're selling a commodity, there are no margins. I agree with you that it would be better for the Android ecosystem if they would, though.

If you or anyone can provide actual evidence that manufacturer software increases sales or gets consumers to tolerate higher margins, I'm all ears. But short of that, I don't believe it. I've never met someone who said they preferred a phone because of the bundled software. I have observed two groups of people:

- Most people aren't conscious of bundled software or couldn't care less about it.

- A minority actively dislike it and are biased toward buying "Google experience" phones.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#100

Post by recoiledsnake »

Fingel wrote: post #97
gujk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has all the drivers it needs. The real difference is that Android systems are locked down in ways more annoying to circumvent than your average Windows OEM junkware install. It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS.

I'd argue its just as easy/easier to "crossgrade the OS" (whatever that means) on an android phone as a PC. Step 1: get a .zip from http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ Step 2: Place it on your SD card. Step 3: Reboot phone, hold down the power button, select "install update". Now you have an android device with the latest software, no bloatware, and a host of other awesome features.

The problem is that you're relying on a third party which does it in their free time. I am not sure they're up to the level of the Linux kernel or Firefox yet.

And installing stuff on a PC is ingrained into people's psyche, if they can't do it themselves, they get some other folks to do it for them. Upgrading phones? Not so much. My friend never updated her iPhone 4 once. She once used iTunes to transfer songs to it when she bought it and then hated iTunes and didn't listen to music on the phone enough to connect it again. I installed a bunch of apps/games on her phone that she uses/plays, but whenever I see the phone, I see updates to the apps that are never installed from the app store. The other day, 34 apps were pending install on the app store icon!

I know that's unfathomable to us geeks, but that is how much of the general populace is. They wouldn't even know what a ROM means or how to go about finding what's the best one from xda-dev or how or even why they should attempt to install it instead of just using something that "works"(well or not) for now.

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