Earlier quoted context omitted.
So... what did they think was the future for Tibet?
I certainly didn't ask that question from a political perspective. I'm not delusional to assume that Tibet and its people stand a chance against China. And this was also reflected in their answers. They're mostly concerned with ensuring that people have a safe passage out of there (having the ability to go to India and lead a life without oppression), while trying to negotiate peace deals for sacred locations and the…
Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
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Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
They don’t “turn off” pain. Likely, they either objectify it (i.e. dispassionately observe the experience of pain) or ignore it (i.e. focus on a separate sensation) or dilute it (i.e. focus on “nothing” or alternatively, the all-encompassing sensation of “being”, the “now”, so that the experience of the pain is not the sole focus of their attention).
If the sense door of anatta [1] I walked through almost a decade ago now is any indication it's the former. The pain is still pain and as vivid but because not-you there's no clinging therefore no suffering. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anattā
Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#93As a zen Buddhist, I've always kinda felt our Tibetan 'dharma brothers' style of buddhism (admittedly, I don't know a lot about) feels much more like a proper religion than the kind of thing I've been into.. Which put me off quite a lot of it, I still hope to someday visit the place. It’s pretty sad that such an essentially peaceful and introspective group of people are abused thus, even if they believe in some prett…
IMHO only, not an expert/informed analysis: Buddhism can be a risk to Chinese harmony if left to a separate authority (the real Dalai Lama). The Chinese grand social experiment of a strong state can only really work if they are relatively culturally homogenous, whether in Tibet or Hong Kong or Xinjiang or Taiwan. Dissent plants the seeds of change, and the CCP's system doesn't work when there is too much diversity of…
Although, I admit that I do have a hard time knitting together Tibetan and Burmese etc forms of Buddhism with what my understanding is (zen). They seem to genuinely worship Gautama Buddha as if he was some kinda god or something.
That's not what we're into at all. He was just a normal dude, in zen... And I mean... Dogen too. Both kinda interesting and insightful ones, ones we probably can learn something from (also learn some negative things from, e.g, O.G buddha walked out on his family (what a cunt!)) but yeah, there's no space laser eyes or anything in my book.
Just some dudes that looked at a wall for some years, and realised they're essentially the same as the local lemon tree. Kinda makes sense to me.
Takes a while though.
Even though I'm a buddhist, I seem to really offend non-zen buddhists in this fashion, which I find kinda hilarious.
Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong with theocracy? Really? How about that you can't change it very easily once you have it? Or that it's based on authority, mostly of a small set of people? Or that religious issues have caused the slaughter of millions of people? Are you really abandoning liberal democracy because you happen to have found a religion you like?
> Are you really abandoning liberal democracy because you happen to have found a religion you like? I've not found a religion I like :) I'd said what's wrong with theocracy if that is what the people want, for example vote for. So, in effect it's a democratically chosen theocracy. Is that not democracy after all? In other words, if Tibet were to become independent and the people chose Dalai Lama to be the head of the…
Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#95I think this form of protest is outdated in modern times. We're constantly being bombarded by war footage, dead kids from school shootings, suicide bombings, and collapsing skyscrapers. This may have been significant back in the day but now it's hardly a blip on the radar of tragedies of people trying to send a message through violence. I personally find it to be a sad senseless outdated cultural practice , no matter…
Self-sacrifice as an act of martyrdom lets you maintain the moral high ground, continue your role as the victim, and still speak your truth -- however quietly, in the modern attention-deficit, compassion-fatigued era.
Also, keep in mind the power differential between China and Tibet. There is no feasible way for Tibet to even put up a fight, much less win an actual armed conflict. Suicide bombing would just bring even more terrible oppressions upon their people.
The self-immolation isn't an act of grand military strategy. It's a desperate cry for justice in this world or their next, whispered into the wind and carried to an uncaring world. It's the sort of thing that requires a deep commitment to one's values, knowing its ultimate effect and still choosing to go through with it, not because it's strategically useful but only because you are exercising what little agency you have left with the ideals you've carried your whole life.
Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#96Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
They were not so peaceful and introspective when they were actually in power. This is basically a CCP talking point at this point, but it is pretty true that the system they governed was essentially a serfdom-powered society. See the sort of punishments that were common for people who tried to organize the serfs in any way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungshar
Just as a side thought... if you look long enough at any country's history, you'll surely find horrors and terrible individuals. But that rarely means that country or its modern descendants would want to be "liberated" by a foreign conquerer, whether that's China or the USA. Forced assimilation is a form of genocide and people would almost always choose to be oppressed by one of their own rather than a foreigner...
And about old Tibet, I recommend "Seven Years in Tibet", real story of a Nazi who fled a british war prisoner camp in india and then spend 7 years in Tibet, also as a teacher for the young Dalai Lama, until the chinese came. I read and recommend the book, but they also made a Hollywood movie with Brad Pitt out of it (which I have not watched yet, it is supposed to be good, but likely not as deep).
Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
And what, china thinks tibet will somehow find a way to stop rivers running? Or the kind of people who move individual ants while building temples would poison such waters? I still don't get it. Maybe it's those little blue flowers from Batman Begins they're after? >_<
China is already planning the "world's riskiest mega dam" in Tibet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEYuRFJ12iw . It plans to use water supply as a weapon against India.
Re: Popular Tibetan singer Tsewang Norbu dies of self-immolation protest
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMHO only, not an expert/informed analysis: Buddhism can be a risk to Chinese harmony if left to a separate authority (the real Dalai Lama). The Chinese grand social experiment of a strong state can only really work if they are relatively culturally homogenous, whether in Tibet or Hong Kong or Xinjiang or Taiwan. Dissent plants the seeds of change, and the CCP's system doesn't work when there is too much diversity of…
I would hope that China would understand Buddhism enough to know that there is no possible separate authority... I mean, the Heart sutra almost definitely came from China.. Although, I admit that I do have a hard time knitting together Tibetan and Burmese etc forms of Buddhism with what my understanding is (zen). They seem to genuinely worship Gautama Buddha as if he was some kinda god or something. That's not what w…
Speaking as an agnostic, outside observer looking in on the various forms of Buddhism:
Buddhism has mutated a lot in its history, and every country it touches has been changed by it and in turn changes it. I don't think any two countries practice the same form of Buddhism. Some sects of it are strongly mystical and others are more rational, and deification is an important part of some practices (and practitioners) and not others. In the US, I've been to supposedly Zen practices that had an emphasis on "acknowledging/honoring" the bodhisattvas prior to meditation; to me, as an agnostic, it felt very similar to worship.
"Buddhism with Chinese characteristics" (to steal a phrase) mixes their particular cultural norms with the Indian version, adds on Confucianism and Taoism to some degree, and then seeks to put it all under CCP control. Much like the Romans absorbed Christianity and added their own flavor, China does the same with its assimilees... again, for cultural and political hegemony. They are trying to weave the young puppet Dalai Lama into their own narrative, slowly and subtly.
You are a Buddhist in the same sense that Protestants and Catholics are both Christian, but that never stopped them from disagreeing :) Weird, the arbitrary lines in the sand we like to draw, no?