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Systemd 250 Released

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Re: Systemd 250 Released

#91

Post by 3np »

dschuetz wrote: post #78
3np wrote: post #29

systemd-networkd will now automatically configure routes to addresses specified in AllowedIPs=. This feature can be controlled via RouteTable= and RouteMetric= settings in [WireGuard] or [WireGuardPeer] sections. Wow, that’s a pretty significant breaking change that I’m surprised to see (and one I don’t really agree with; there was reasoning behind not doing that in the first place). This is going to bite most users…

Reading this the following comes to mind: Wow systemd breaks important things and solves non-problems, awesome, I love systemd!

Honestly, moving my VPN management from wg-quick+ip-route+iptables to systemd-networkd was a great experience and made things so much easier and predictable. Wish I had done it way sooner. Similarly, after having spent way too much time fiddling with IP and routing in other ways (OpenWRT comes to mind), systemd-networkd made it so much more predictable and straight-forward.

Similar story with other components.

Having to read the release notes before upgrading to a new major version is a price I’m willing to pay.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#92

Post by gorgoiler »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #14
ChuckMcM wrote: post #6

At this point any system that is running this should not be called "UNIX derived" or "UNIX like" as systemd has subsumed all of the pre-existing architecture around system startup and management. Not arguing if that is a good or bad thing just saying we should stop putting systemd managed systems in the 'UNIX' column just like we don't put Windows NT systems in the UNIX column.

Would anyone care to explain to someone who isn't 1337 in the inner workings of Linux, why systemd makes modern Linux not very UNIXY anymore and why everyone seems to hate it to death?

UNIX, TCP/IP, C libraries, web browsers and HTML… all are interoperable technologies. If your site works in browser X, you can switch to browser Y and it still works. If your code compiles for x86 Linux, it’ll run on arm Linux too.

SystemD is not an interoperable technology. It insists on wrapping itself around what was already there, in the guise of making it better while also making it impossible to use something else.

Abstract example: imagine systemd-plated manages access to crockery in your kitchen, providing neat features like being able to quickly pick out plates by colour (the old system never did that!). However, if you take a plate for yourself instead of asking systemd for it then systemd will take the plate out of your hands, put it back in the stack, and say “error: plate not requested via systemd”. Now imagine everything in your kitchen has to go through systemd. Now imagine that systemd is one of the biggest and most rapidly changing machines in your kitchen that breaks a lot. You’d be pretty annoyed if you ever did anything weird enough to encounter these bugs. If you only ever want a blue plate, you’re fine.

Real example: Any day now we’ll be unable to use plain LXC on Linux because systemd (1) assumes you only manage containers via systemd and (2) clobbers any changes you make outside systemd, using the lxc-* tools.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#93

Post by bayindirh »

sgaduuw wrote: post #88
gorgoiler wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the best coder you know, take their bugs-per-line-of-code rate, and multiply it by 713,364 (systemd *.h *.c)

Since all software has bugs, that doesn't make it a new problem now does it?

systemd had way more bugs and crinkles for an init system when it first started, and an init system is critical software.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#95

Post by gorgoiler »

sgaduuw wrote: post #88
gorgoiler wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take the best coder you know, take their bugs-per-line-of-code rate, and multiply it by 713,364 (systemd *.h *.c)

Since all software has bugs, that doesn't make it a new problem now does it?

”All software has bugs, but some are more buggy than others.”

Systemd is exceptionally voluminous, fast moving, feature-laden (which is part of why it is so exciting to so many people), and buggy.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#96

Post by pverghese »

raverbashing wrote: post #82
trabant00 wrote: post #13

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

More like replace a working system with a more unreliable one with stability problems (and prioritize more features instead of fixing it) and more resource usage, then push for its adoption, then complain when you get hate. Now yes, it gives you more functionality, but it was a pain until it got there. Systemd was just Pulseaudio all over again (except now in init, so if it breaks your whole system can't boot). Now,…

There is no reason to be so dramatic. In the end you are free to use any init system you want.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#97

Post by userbinator »

foodbag wrote: post #85
trabant00 wrote: post #13

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

Is Lennart/Red Hat meant to be the internet's villain? Perhaps that's the view of a small minority. I for one am very grateful for Lennart/Red Hat's vast contributions. Leading modern Linux.

Be aware that "modern" has a very negative connotation for a lot of people now.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#98

Post by pverghese »

Mikhail_K wrote: post #48
starklevnertz wrote: post #9

I just want to pre-empt the inevitable bitching about systemd to say I think it’s awesome and incredibly useful and consistent and powerful and I’d take it any day over the mess of stuff that filled systemd’s duties before. Sure it isn’t perfect, but what software is? And let me ask a question, if systemd is crap, why does every major distro use it? If it was truly crap then surely the distro builders would use the a…

> And let me ask a question, if systemd is crap, why does every major distro use it? If Big Mac is a crappy food, why billions are served with it?

Or maybe you should questions yourself as to why you are so angry about what others like

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#99

Post by oliwarner »

I'm a Log4Shell survivor and I'm finding it hard to see them packing more and more features into this monolith.

It'll probably be fine, but I'll be Jack's complete lack of surprise when I'm taping servers back together after a DNS exploit gives some kids root access.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#100

Post by pritambaral »

traverseda wrote: post #70
fsh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

systemd-homed is not intended for your single-user desktop. Don't use it.

What is it intended for? Certainly not large scale user groups backed by an LDAP server, as those would have consistent uid/gid so setting everything to be owned by nobody wouldn't make sense technically... What is the use case?

Portable home directories. Think pen drives.
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