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Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

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Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#91

Post by mysecretaccount »

voz_ wrote: post #71
b112 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But unlike every other nation on Earth, they took over land belonging to others! In case people don't notice, that's extreme sarcasm. Every nation on Earth has taken over others, just look at the native peoples of every country in North and South America, of Nordic Countries, Australia. Look at how Europe's borders were re-written 1000 times. Africa. The Middle East. If the beef is (and it seems to be for some) that…

I'd like to point out that the current generation of both the palestinians and the jews did not take or give land. The people who did are pretty much gone. At this point, there's not much to be done - both sides were both there. A more interesting discussion, I think, is why does Hamas consistently reject the Israeli peace offering and two state solution?

> I'd like to point out that the current generation of both the palestinians and the jews did not take or give land.

This is simply not correct. Israel's borders have continued to expand in the 21st century.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#92

Post by smitty1e »

clavicat wrote: post #88
voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

But...the Israelis have deep roots in the Levant, as evidenced by a certain book of note.

The 'colonial' argument rings hollow.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#93

Post by clavicat »

b112 wrote: post #60
voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

But unlike every other nation on Earth, they took over land belonging to others! In case people don't notice, that's extreme sarcasm. Every nation on Earth has taken over others, just look at the native peoples of every country in North and South America, of Nordic Countries, Australia. Look at how Europe's borders were re-written 1000 times. Africa. The Middle East. If the beef is (and it seems to be for some) that…

And yet, if another country invaded your country and tried to take your land, you’d think it an injustice, no? Or would you be telling yourself that it’s no big deal, after all, our ancestors took this land from some forgotten people as well?

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#94

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

clavicat wrote: post #88
voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

Or maybe not everything was bad about "colonial regimes of old".

At this point in history, it seems likely every human being is descendant of people who at some time conquered other people.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#95

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

chuckee wrote: post #73
voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

> progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. Which other ethno-nationalist states do you laud this way? It is unrealistic and unacceptable to expect the State of Israel to voluntarily subvert its own sovereign existence and nationalist identity and become a vulnerable minority within what was once its own territory. - https://web.archive.org/web/20210519103412/https://www.adl.o...…

Afaik lots on non Jewish people live in Israel, including Palestinians. No Jews live in Palestine. So in what sense is Israel the "ethno-nationalist" state?

Your article about theEritreans moving to Sweden states "the Israeli government was not part of the initiative".

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#96

Post by clavicat »

smitty1e wrote: post #92
clavicat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

But...the Israelis have deep roots in the Levant, as evidenced by a certain book of note. The 'colonial' argument rings hollow.

That is like saying that the Greeks would be justified in invading Turkey and annexing Istanbul and all of Eastern Anatolia because they had an ancient presence there and that their domination over the subjugated Turks wouldn’t constitute colonialism.

Attempts at ethnic revanchism based on where humans once lived thousands of years ago is weird, creepy shit. It’s creepy when Hitler did it, and it’s creepy when you do it.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#97

Post by Protostome »

clavicat wrote: post #88
voz_ wrote: post #50

Israel is a wonderful country. Scientifically advanced, progressively minded, a bastion of secularism, LGBT rights, and western ideals. The world is, sadly, obsessed with them. I'd love a real explanation why they get so much undue attention given how they behave towards their enemies. Israel drops leaflets before bombing so civilians can clear out. When Hamas stores weapons in schools and Hospitals, Israel exercises…

Notice how your defenses of Israel are identical to the colonial regimes of old. We’re progressive and secular and advanced and humane, not like those terrorist savages who attack us for no reason. The rhetoric is indistinguishable from that of the French justifying their hold on Algeria, or the Japanese over Korea, or the white settler regimes of Africa, or China over the Uighers. If you need it spelt out for you, i…

How is it a settler colonial project when even the name 'Jew' is derived from Judea - which is a kingdom that existed where Israel exists today.

The US, Canada, Australia, NZ can be considered settler's colonies much more than Israel since the europeans who settled there had anything whatsover with those places.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#98

Post by kkjjkgjjgg »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #82
JanSt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some more specifics?

I recommend checking out the disparity in terms of casualties and general suffering this year alone ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Israel%E2%80%93Palestine_... ) and working backward. This talk ( https://youtu.be/MON2HL02mec ) of Norman Finkelstein is also a solid introduction.

Israel has the better military. That doesn't automatically make them evil. Their enemies (Hamas) have sworn to eliminate them.

What would you do if you were Israel?

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#99

Post by voz_ »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #86
voz_ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for accusing me of that. In what way is at an apartheid? There is no systematic discrimination based on race in Israel. I cannot say the same for other countries, esp when it comes to Jews.

Hey, neither of us is going to change the other's view here, so it is not useful to go back and forth like this. If you wanted an answer to that question you could look it up, like I have looked up the arguments and counter arguments to the apartheid question. What is interesting is that the tide is turning and your view is becoming less common, especially among the youth in developed nations, particularly Ireland. T…

I am sad you are not open to being swayed, what is the value of coming to a discussion with no intent to change your own mind? How can you visit to offer opinions, with the intent to change others minds, but not be open to having your own changed? Perhaps this topic is near and dear to you, so it is difficult. I do recommend re-evaluating how you think about common discussion spaces like these, and the nature of disagreements in general.

Perhaps, as a start, let's find some common ground: I firmly believe that both Israelis and Palestinians deserve peace, prosperity, and full rights.

Re: Google Employees Oppose Company's Cooperation with Israel

#100

Post by JanSt »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #82
JanSt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some more specifics?

I recommend checking out the disparity in terms of casualties and general suffering this year alone ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Israel%E2%80%93Palestine_... ) and working backward. This talk ( https://youtu.be/MON2HL02mec ) of Norman Finkelstein is also a solid introduction.

Please be more specific. A disparity in casualties is to be expected in this kind of conflict. It also says nothing about who started what, who wants to erase whom etc.

Regarding Finkelstein (who has been endorsed by David Duke and others): Bronzik, Benz, Seligmann and many more have shown many flaws in his book.

It's easy to throw some articles around and put appeals to authority ("Finkelstein is also a solid introduction") in a comment. No conflict it as clear as people on any side make it sound.

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