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Waterfox Browser

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Re: Waterfox Browser

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my phone, I have the newest version of Firefox Fennec and IceCatMobile (ancient and barely supported) - they both launch and function at, as far as I can see, exactly the same speed. Where is this speedup you mention actually found?

While I do use Firefox on mobile, I'm talking about the desktop version, like most people do. The latest rendering improvements are showing great results, and hardware acceleration on Linux is now on part with Windows, so it's fantastic to use on a modern laptop.

Does Firefox do hardware acceleration for videos yet? It still does it in software by default on Linux as far as I know, unless this has changed recently?

Re: Waterfox Browser

#94
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re just looking for a version of Firefox without the user-hostile parts LibreWolf seems like an attempt at this: https://librewolf-community.gitlab.io/

I don’t think it is. If it is, it’s pretty bad at it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28816990

Hmm. You're right that they are trying to do more than just that, they're trying to make a browser with an "off by default" policy for anything potentially privacy impacting. Personally, I haven't done any more than check it out, but I did end up switching back most of their changed settings.

I think the end game for this probably ought to be an interface that appears post-install and asks you to choose a set of privacy-friendly options (which may break things), or enable all web technologies (which may impact privacy). That seems the user-respecting thing to do to me.

Still, though, I'm glad that privacy-by-default, no unexpected connections out of the box, is something that someone is working on.

Re: Waterfox Browser

#95
post #79

As pointed out in another comment [0], apparently it’s extremely outdated. Other comments describe it as unstable and lacking Apple Silicon builds. If you’re just looking for a version of Firefox without the user-hostile parts, this ain’t exactly it. From my months-old research such a thing doesn’t really seem to exist yet, but I definitely think it should. It could perhaps initially be shipped as a set of patches to…

I must be out of the loop here... What are the user-hostile parts of Firefox you mention?

For the purposes of this comment, user-hostility means decisions that have negative utility for Firefox users as a whole, while benefiting Mozilla in some way (usually financial).

* There is disgusting clickbait and spam on the new tab page by default, thanks to bundling Pocket's article recommendations. Many of these are sponsored suggestions (a euphemism that means "advertisement"), but ironically these are scarcely more annoying than the actual suggestions.

* The top sites feature on the new tab page, intended to provide easy access to the sites you use the most, is now infested with sponsored recommendations like Amazon and Ebay.

* The URL bar is now infested with sponsored suggestions, even if you have searching from that bar turned off!

* The have made major blunders in their handling of "experiments" and telemetry. They broke all extensions because they failed to update a certificate (after shipping Firefox with a signing requirement for extensions that can't be disabled), and shipped an extension directly to users via their hotpatching feature that implemented a sponsored tie-in with a TV SHOW which manipulated the text on web pages, a major breach of trust in their use of hotpatching.

More minor or borderline cases:

* They have shipped many of these anti-features and stuff that belongs in user-installable extensions as part of the source code of Firefox itself. This bloats the browser, makes it harder for potential forkers to remove the code, and makes it harder for them to reverse course in the future should they decide to undo their disastrous series of decisions.

* They default to Google as a search engine because Google pays them lots of money, not because they believe that's the best search engine for their users to use. They were using Yahoo a few years ago.

* They generate pointless UI churn, presumably because their design team has nothing else to do. Most of these features have been received poorly by the majority of Firefox users invested enough to speak out, suggesting that they have some other motive than making their users happy.

* Needless removal of features that arguably do belong in a browser: detection of RSS feeds, compact mode for the GUI, the ability to use CSS to restyle the browser interface (now hidden behind a "deprecated" toggle)

* On top of everything else, the horrible communication from Mozilla has made everything so much more hostile than it already was. They outright denied at first, for example, that the "new tab suggestions intended to improve the user experience" were advertisements.

* The mobile transition has been a disaster. They've had like 4 or 5 different "editions" of Firefox over the last few years as they tried to decide what their strategy was, and now that they've set on one, they deprecated the only version of their browser that supported add-ons on mobile without a replacement, and now almost 30 versions later the overwhelming majority of addons are still not supported. And the justification for all this, refactoring to make the browser faster, didn't materialize. I tested both the old and newest browser on objective benchmarks and saw a difference of less than 10%, and the UI of the new browser was noticeably slower.

Re: Waterfox Browser

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what copyright is for or how copyright works. Copyright renewal is a real thing. Copyright years generally get refreshed whenever the content changes.

> Copyright renewal is a real thing. Not in most jurisdictions, no. What's your country where copyright renewal is still a thing? (no judgement here, despite all my hatred for copyright i'd rather have copyright renewal than copyright until 50y after death of all editors/compositors/authors as we have in Europe)

The United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_renewal_in_the_Unite...

Moreover, under United States law, new editions of a preexisting work are considered "derivative works" and in these cases "the editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications represent, as a whole, an original work." [1]

SIGNIFICANTLY, this U.S. government source explicitly mentions the following as cases of derivative works which allow for a new copyright:

* A new version of an existing computer program

* A revision of a website

The new copyright on the derivative work "covers only the additions, changes, or other new material appearing for the first time in the work."

In other words, by creating a derivative work via updating an existing computer program or modifying a website, you absolutely gain a new copyright on any new material and you absolutely can and should update the copyright date under U.S. law.

People urging the contrary, at least insofar as they are talking about the United States or governments with similar copyright regimes are dead wrong, and jcranmer and garmaine are right and unfairly downvoted.

[1] https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

Re: Waterfox Browser

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copyright renewal is a real thing. Not in most jurisdictions, no. What's your country where copyright renewal is still a thing? (no judgement here, despite all my hatred for copyright i'd rather have copyright renewal than copyright until 50y after death of all editors/compositors/authors as we have in Europe)

Pretty much all jurisdictions. Even in Europe the copyright is extended if you alter a work.

It would be slightly more accurate to say that you receive a new copyright in any new material in the work, not that your copyright is extended on the old material. Under U.S. law at least, a significant alteration of a work results in a derivative work under law, and you are correct to say that it is entirely reasonable to place an updated copyright date on that work.

Re: Waterfox Browser

#98
post #29

Several things make me skeptical about this browser. 1) Homepage is a bit uncared for. The Copyright shows "2020" at the bottom, the top screenshot looks doctored rather than being a real screenshot. 2) It's owned by an ad marketing platform, System1, as noted in the FAQ. On the plus side, the Github repository is active.

The first screenshot is in fact not a screenshot but an svg file. I don’t see how that makes the website look more fishy, though…

There's awkward spacing in the characters in the address bar. They're uneven.

Re: Waterfox Browser

#99
post #95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be out of the loop here... What are the user-hostile parts of Firefox you mention?

For the purposes of this comment, user-hostility means decisions that have negative utility for Firefox users as a whole, while benefiting Mozilla in some way (usually financial). * There is disgusting clickbait and spam on the new tab page by default, thanks to bundling Pocket's article recommendations. Many of these are sponsored suggestions (a euphemism that means "advertisement"), but ironically these are scarcel…

I'm so confused. Pretty much everything you describe is them making money. Would you rather them not be in business? Be a subscription browser? I don't understand.

Re: Waterfox Browser

#100
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the purposes of this comment, user-hostility means decisions that have negative utility for Firefox users as a whole, while benefiting Mozilla in some way (usually financial). * There is disgusting clickbait and spam on the new tab page by default, thanks to bundling Pocket's article recommendations. Many of these are sponsored suggestions (a euphemism that means "advertisement"), but ironically these are scarcel…

I'm so confused. Pretty much everything you describe is them making money. Would you rather them not be in business? Be a subscription browser? I don't understand.

Hmm. I haven't made a claim that they should not or must not do this. Your argument amounts to the claim that they must do these things because they have no other choice. I have ... not a lot to say on this point, honestly. What you say might be true.

However, it doesn't bear at all on the question of whether the actions are user hostile. Any change known to the developers to negatively impact the utility of end users is user hostile. Maybe a program like Firefox can't exist in 2021 without being ... essentially adware ... and if so I think that's sad, but it's not a reason to redefine our terms to make it not user hostile to begin with!

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