Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#91

Post by raducu » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #58

yosito wrote: post #55

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fa…

The best melatonin pills would be both chewable and small dosage, but unfortunately they are hard to find. I suspect manufacturers have a hard time selling smaller doses because people think they’re getting a superior product with larger doses. Personally I settled for a 500mcg chewable dose that I split in half with a pill splitter.

Try melatonin drops. The ones I use are 1.5mg for 10 drops, which means I only take 2-3 drops.

They also last a reaaaly long time for me, because I take such a low dosage and I don't use them everyday.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#92

Post by bserge » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

warent wrote: post #48

I've had this experience lately of waking up around 3 or 4 AM and having a hard time falling back asleep for 30 mins or so. Nothing catastrophic, but a bit annoying. To address this, I've tried a couple of different things to help sleep: melatonin; and valerian root extract. The valerian root worked great, until one night it gave me the worst sleep paralysis night terror of all time. Sleep paralysis is nothing new to…

Ah yes, the valerian nightmares lol. I used to take 200-500mg and had those occasionally. It is a good anxilyotic otherwise, sadly tolerance builds up real fast.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#93

Post by bserge » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:08 AM UTC

Sunspark wrote: post #11

Melatonin is a hormone, and is contraindicated for those with existing or predisposition to mental health conditions. In fact, that used to be a warning on the label in NY state. It's not something to play with.

It is if you accept the risks. Everything should be something to "play with".

Never worked for me in any dosage, anyway, hopefully it works for others.

Doesn't really matter in Europe since it's prescription only like anything else half useful. Living like a bunch of idiot slaves over here.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#94

Post by Lewton » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #29

bpodgursky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, in the context of commercial supplements being 10-30x the "correct dose" the significant point is that the commercial doses are stupidly high for anyone. People needing +/- 50% of the dose isn't the important part here.

I tried taking 8x of his "correct dose" for months and it failed for me. I'm currently taking 16x his "correct dose".

It does not sound like you've taken 1x his "correct dose"? The effect of melatonin is NOT linear. Taking too much reduces the effect of it

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#95

Post by krageon » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

yosito wrote: post #53

lamontcg wrote: post #4

> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fa…

> not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy

> I suggest to anyone who is taking 1mg or larger doses to experiment with a "microdose" of 0.2mg and see how it affects you.

So the problem I have with this reasoning is that I have tried this and the higher doses make me way more sleepy. I take a lower "correct" dose anyway (most of the time), but it has nothing to do with what works better.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#96

Post by brigandish » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

raducu wrote: post #90

jack_pp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you dose it though? Lowest dose I can find is 1mg pills and even those are pretty rare in my country. Do you get 1mg pills, crush them and measure out on precision scales?

You take syrup drops. One drop is ~150 mcg.

This is the way I do it now. I buy melatonin in a liquid and it has a dropper with measures on it. I don't sweat about a couple of drops too high or low, it's fine, much better than trying to chop up tablets into doses!

It's tastier too.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#97

Post by krageon » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

void_mint wrote: post #70

lamontcg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mental health conditions" is rather broad along with the intersection between insomnia and depression. you probably just suggested that nobody should take melatonin because you had anxiety.

Suggesting that people with mental health conditions do not self medicate with supplements that can be particularly harmful to those with mental health conditions is entirely reasonable.

Self-medication for quality of life is broadly all you have if you don't want to be put on the hefty big guns immediately. The alternative to the big guns is being told that there's nothing wrong with you. As such, saying "don't self-medicate" is extremely unproductive and only serves to push such practices out of view.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#98

Post by npteljes » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

bserge wrote: post #93

Sunspark wrote: post #11

Melatonin is a hormone, and is contraindicated for those with existing or predisposition to mental health conditions. In fact, that used to be a warning on the label in NY state. It's not something to play with.

It is if you accept the risks. Everything should be something to "play with". Never worked for me in any dosage, anyway, hopefully it works for others. Doesn't really matter in Europe since it's prescription only like anything else half useful. Living like a bunch of idiot slaves over here.

>Doesn't really matter in Europe since it's prescription only

It's over the counter in Hungary. Is it presciption only where you live?

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#99

Post by Tenoke » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:30 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #27

lamontcg wrote: post #4

> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…

I'm not sure you can trust the numbers on unregulated supplements anyway.

Any reference for the variance on them? I doubt it's too big but would prefer to just see what this is based on.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#100

Post by jack_pp » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 9:31 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #80

jack_pp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you dose it though? Lowest dose I can find is 1mg pills and even those are pretty rare in my country. Do you get 1mg pills, crush them and measure out on precision scales?

You can get 300mcg pills but they never seem to be the sublingual, dissolving type. The lowest I've found dissolving tablets is 1mg. I take a half or a quarter and dissolve it under my tongue. That works fine when it works. Sometimes it puts me to sleep and I sleep longer than my usual 5-6 hours while waking up with a hangover. Sometimes it just makes me sleepy for 15 minutes and then I'm wide awake. Melatonin is ver…

the variation may be because the pill isn't uniformly distributed so one half pill doesn't necessarily mean half dose of melatonin, which is why I was wondering if he crushed them. Check out the other responses, there seem to be liquid alternatives which are easier to dose.