Melatonin is a hormone, and is contraindicated for those with existing or predisposition to mental health conditions. In fact, that used to be a warning on the label in NY state.
It's not something to play with.
Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#12Melatonin helped me with my sleep a bit, but never a lot. What did help is much brighter light during the day (on a timer, so the lighting would become dark in the evening) and adding to the basically-useless blue-light filters on my devices some automatic timed screen brightness changes.
I used to have circadian rhythm disorders. The most common pattern for me was the pattern of delayed sleep-wake disorder i.e. night owl disorder. I also experienced non-24 hour sleep-wake disorder, where you go to bed at a different time every "night", offset by an hour or two. At my worst, I experienced irregular sleep-wake disorder, which consists of many short naps throughout the day, with no pattern from day to day. Comorbid with depression, of course. Even the most mild (delayed sleep-wake disorder) is like 50% comorbid with depression.
Fortunately I'm now mentally healthy and free from sleep issues, and I attribute that mostly to the lighting changes I've made to my apartment. I've also heard these kinds of changes can help with SAD if the lights are bright enough. Look up how bright the sun is, and try to get your apartment to at least 10% of that. (100% is still too expensive, and 10% seems to work fine.) Note that most indoor lighting is usually closer to 1%.
P.S. this is essentially "light therapy" which they prescribe with those pathetic little light boxes, but if you look up the amount of light they give off, it's not nearly enough (and not for a long enough period). Hence why the stupid light boxes had no effect, but my own lighting setup changed my sleep dramatically. Here is a setup similar to my own: https://arbital.com/p/lumenators/
P.P.S Another thing you can try if you have circadian rhythm issues is to exercise hard in the morning right at your desired wake-up time. I never had to try it, but I did see a promising study in mice that showed it could reset their circadian rhythm more dramatically than anything else.
P.P.P.S If your sleep issues are not circadian in nature, don't bother with melatonin. You develop a tolerance to the sedative effects of melatonin pretty quickly, in my experience.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#13I started to gradually notice some tossing and turning throughout the night in my mid 30s. I began taking one 100mg capsule of magnesium citrate right before I attempt to go to sleep. Has worked exceptionally well for about seven years now. Knocks me out, with no negative reaction to the magnesium (some people apparently have a negative stomach and or bowel reaction to magnesium supplements; I haven't attempted high…
My wife suffered from sleeping issues for a very long time. She tried everything under the sun including nytol, sublingual melatonin , slow release melatonin, passiflora and other teas. Nothing really helped her until eventually someone suggested ZMA (a zinc magnesium complex used by bodybuilders ) . That was a saving pill for her and fixed her sleep.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#14> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…
On the anxiolytic side - a warning for those susceptible to such things, when I was taking melatonin it caused me horrible anxiety, something I’d never experienced before. It stopped not long after I discontinued it.
That happened to me too. Not pleasant.
Melatonin should never be taken by those with existing or predisposition to mental health conditions.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#15My wife can only sleep during regular night hours with Melatonin. It improved her quality of life so much. We even blind tested her three times with identical pills at night and the nights with placebo melatonin had no sleep each time.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#16Melatonin helped me with my sleep a bit, but never a lot. What did help is much brighter light during the day (on a timer, so the lighting would become dark in the evening) and adding to the basically-useless blue-light filters on my devices some automatic timed screen brightness changes. I used to have circadian rhythm disorders. The most common pattern for me was the pattern of delayed sleep-wake disorder i.e. nigh…
I've been wondering about lighting brightness for a while now. Lighting still leaves rooms kind of dark - not even as bright as they look like with daylight, let alone the sun shining through the window. In nature the sun wouldn't be shining through a window either - it would be all around you. Should we perhaps get brighter lighting overall? Would that help with sleep issues? Eyesight?
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#17> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…
Yeah I am flabbergasted a psychiatrist of all people would entertain the idea of a “correct” dose. They should look at their own practice and see the range of lithium, SSRI, antipsychotics, antiepileptics doses their patients are on — and these are for medications with far more studies about dose response than melatonin.
They should also know better that serum levels of a supplement/medication that acts centrally can be misleading.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the anxiolytic side - a warning for those susceptible to such things, when I was taking melatonin it caused me horrible anxiety, something I’d never experienced before. It stopped not long after I discontinued it.
That happened to me too. Not pleasant. Melatonin should never be taken by those with existing or predisposition to mental health conditions.
"mental health conditions" is rather broad along with the intersection between insomnia and depression. you probably just suggested that nobody should take melatonin because you had anxiety.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#19> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…
Ok, in the context of commercial supplements being 10-30x the "correct dose" the significant point is that the commercial doses are stupidly high for anyone. People needing +/- 50% of the dose isn't the important part here.
Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)
#20> Most existing melatonin tablets are around ten to thirty times the correct dose I wonder how common this is in pharmacology.
Potassium has a recommended daily intake of around 3500-4500 mg. The largest pill supplement I've seen is 600 mg. Most are in the 200-300 mg range. 99 mg in the US A banana is 300-400 mg of potassium in comparison.
Meanwhile you can go to the grocery store and buy "low sodium salt" by the kilogram where half the NaCl is replaced by KCl.