Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

sifted.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 174 posts

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#91

Post by ghostwriter »

rvz wrote: post #11

More like 'mission failed successfully' for the Tech sector in the UK. Many UK tech startups are getting acquired in all directions and the Big Tech companies in the US continue to open more offices in the UK. The biggest casualty of Brexit in the UK tech industry was ARM. The competition for UK tech startups to hire away talent from the big tech companies has become close to impossible. I don't think we are going to…

> I don't think we are going to see a 'Google' in the UK anytime soon if this continues.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/arrival-e-bus-electric-vehicl...

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#92

Post by klelatti »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #79
gambiting wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the humiliating experience of having to apply for an american visa as a tourist, so I don't have to imagine, thank you. And again, just because some people have it worse doesn't mean these issues don't exist. No one at my company is going "well, we suddenly lost access to a job market of 300M people, but well, people from India have it much worse so I guess it's fine". Like, I get your point, but it's not help…

I'm trying to show that the situation is not as bad as some claim it is and that all countries have immigration controls. I'm not saying that Indians have it worse, but I'm not saying that EU citizens deserve to have it better, either. It is absolutely possible to hire from outside the UK, even for junior positions, and that happens a lot all the time. In my book reality checks are helpful.

Not all countries have policies that have led to systematic deportation of significant numbers of their citizens who have the legal right to be in the country.

You've provided a personal view of your own experience - fair enough - but it's not a 'reality check' on the point made in the comment you replied to.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#93

Post by mytailorisrich »

klelatti wrote: post #92
mytailorisrich wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to show that the situation is not as bad as some claim it is and that all countries have immigration controls. I'm not saying that Indians have it worse, but I'm not saying that EU citizens deserve to have it better, either. It is absolutely possible to hire from outside the UK, even for junior positions, and that happens a lot all the time. In my book reality checks are helpful.

Not all countries have policies that have led to systematic deportation of significant numbers of their citizens who have the legal right to be in the country. You've provided a personal view of your own experience - fair enough - but it's not a 'reality check' on the point made in the comment you replied to.

Windrush is a diversion and strawman argument. The topic is the impact of Brexit and immigration procedures in general, and I believe I replied on point.

I don't understand the level of emotional reactions which border on hysteria, frankly.

Again, the UK has the right to control immigration like all countries have, and it is relatively straightforward and simple compared to many others. I am a EU citizen in the UK: yes, free movement has ended and that makes things less simple. This is not the end of the world. That's the reality check.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#94

Post by lkramer »

w_t_payne wrote: post #5

Brexit was an absolute tragedy for my family. Immediately after the referendum was lost, my children and wife started to experience a level of racially motivated abuse that we had not seen before. This reached a level where my wife felt she could no longer remain in the country and arranged for us to relocate as a family to mainland Europe. The move was not kind for me, and soon after I arrived I had a breakdown and…

I'm Danish living in London (as a software engineer). I have multiple times been assured by Brexit voters that of course I am fine, it's the others that they voted against.

Whether that is other nationalities or other professions, is then left unsaid, but either way it leaves me massively uncomfortable at that point and I usually excuse myself from the conversation.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#95

Post by alibarber »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #77
rich_sasha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? But ultimately, if you don't mind, that's good news to you. One thing less to worry about in a stressful world.

I haven't noticed any empty shelves i have to say. There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive. If your argument was that wages were kept depressed due to cheap labour from abroad, and how terrible it is that we now have to pay…

I'm a remain-er as much as the next guy (so much so I remain, as a Brit, in another EU country) but:

"...but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive"

Is really the crux of the issue. Getting a licence, whilst involving some moderate challenge, isn't exactly the most difficult or expensive thing to do. It's been a crappy job for a while and relying on it being filled by immigrants who had no better alternatives isn't a sustainable solution anywhere.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#96

Post by CodeGlitch »

rich_sasha wrote: post #71
JetSetWilly wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not noticed any decline in UK immigration as yet. If there is a decline and it is a problem, then the UK has the ability to address it as needed. If there is not a decline then there's not a problem. Speaking for my own workplace the effect of brexit has been to replace European migrants with more Indian migrants, not to actually reduce migration. Unless you believe that continental Europeans have some unique ab…

Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? But ultimately, if you don't mind, that's good news to you. One thing less to worry about in a stressful world.

> Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries?

Yes there are fewer drivers, however my understanding was that this was due to "pingdemic", a lot of drivers not able to work due to isolation. Additionally there were fewer new drivers trained last year, because of obvious reasons.

Also Brexit means there are fewer EU drivers able to work here, but I think the above as had more of an effect.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#97

Post by klelatti »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #93
klelatti wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all countries have policies that have led to systematic deportation of significant numbers of their citizens who have the legal right to be in the country. You've provided a personal view of your own experience - fair enough - but it's not a 'reality check' on the point made in the comment you replied to.

Windrush is a diversion and strawman argument. The topic is the impact of Brexit and immigration procedures in general, and I believe I replied on point. I don't understand the level of emotional reactions which border on hysteria, frankly. Again, the UK has the right to control immigration like all countries have, and it is relatively straightforward and simple compared to many others. I am a EU citizen in the UK: y…

If you don't think deporting significant numbers of people who have lived in the UK all of their adult lives - and are legally entitled to be in the UK - warrants a strong emotional reaction then I think you're in a small minority.

It's an appalling act that has devastated many families and caused untold worry for others.

Windrush is not a straw man as it resulted from the Hostile Environment which remains in place and now applies much more widely.

You may be lucky enough to escape its effects - and I hope you are - but downplaying it doesn't help anyone.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#98

Post by atsjie »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #77
rich_sasha wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticed the empty shelves at the supermarkets? Something to do with no one being around to drive lorries? But ultimately, if you don't mind, that's good news to you. One thing less to worry about in a stressful world.

I haven't noticed any empty shelves i have to say. There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed - who don't because salary is not competitive. If your argument was that wages were kept depressed due to cheap labour from abroad, and how terrible it is that we now have to pay…

> There's is not a labour shortage of lorry drivers. There is increased demand, reduced supply (due to a pandemic on both counts) - but plenty of people who can drive a lorry and are licensed

Not sure what you mean by that, BBC mentiones a lack of 100.000 drivers just a few days ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/57810729

That's a shortage, no matter how you turn it regardless if people are not available or simply don't want to do it.

Sure, pay can increase but so will the price of goods and components, having a knock-on effect on the rest of the economy and making UK less competitive as a result. Companies want to move stuff and they see no profitable means to do so.

I'm in The Netherlands, there's a driver shortage here too but it's mostly eastern europeans filling the void. With an unemployment rate of 3% why bother with a boring away-from-home job? Unless Trucking is your hobby essentially. I imagine most people in the UK feel the same way; there's better jobs available now with the economy opening up.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#99

Post by CodeGlitch »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #88
cameronh90 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously I won't dispute your experience, and I'm sad that you have to go through that. It's never something we've experienced in any part of the UK so far, and we often speak in non-English (well, me not very well - as a typical British person, English is my only fluent language). However, I should add that when I was growing up 20+ years ago (also not in London), this kind of thing was much more common. Indeed, it…

> The long term trend has been greatly softening attitudes towards immigration. I strongly dispute this. The UK has anything but a softened attitude towards immigration in recent years. It was bad enough that it made me leave because I felt the longer term trend is not going to be good for me and my family and I'm a white European. You might not see it as much if you're not directly affected, but the discourse on the…

> I think the UK both wants to think of itself as world open, but a huge part of the population does not like it. Now it's conflicted of what it wants as a country.

Yes isn't it great that we live in a democracy, and have the population decide which direction they would like the country to go in.

Re: Post-Brexit immigration: mission accomplished?

#100

Post by biscotte_ »

eptcyka wrote: post #37
collaborative wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you. Brexit also put a lot of psychological pressure on my wife. She's from a Baltic country, but during Brexit, she'd constantly be asked if she was Polish for no reason at all. -"Hi, nice to meet you" -"Hi, are you Polish?" Nothing against Polish people of course, but it made her start to gradually lose it. Each new instance would bring tears for days Luckily, it seems Brexit…

Me and my partner are in the same boat as your wife - we're from the baltic states and when people are curious about our origins, they ask if we're polish or not. I don't really hold it against people, but having to reassert your own ethnicity gets tiring. Most people are not aware of the country I come from anyway. As a side note of the knowledge the general public holds, it seems like the history knowledge people g…

I live in the Uk, i’m not British, and speak with a foreign accent. I was extremely surprised to see people complain of the « racist abuses »... until i read those few posts explaining that the « racists abuses » in question were the mere fact of being asked « what’s your accent ».

Ok, if being asked what your accent is, is a « racial abuse », then yes, i guess i am a victim and should whine and maybe ask for money? Stop being snowflakes.

Post reply on HN