How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda • Hacker News Board

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#91

Post by mc32 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

beaunative wrote: post #81

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I remember I had a colleague, a Chinese student, very nice person, we were going along nicely, until one day I mentioned the Dalai Lama, and he exploded. It seems like the brainwashing was very successful - he believed that the DL was a monster, killer, some demonic being aiming at the destruction of China and so on. I couldn't believe my ears. This person seemed otherwise completely normal.

I'm pretty sure this generation of Dalai Lama didn't kill anyone, he never had that kind of power, but it should be noted his previous generations have, and consistently did. It should be noted that DL was not just a religious leader, but also had the status of a king, with more power than your typical medieval dictator, who just treat people like trash, and kill, and torture, and rape whoever they want, which really…

If they were honest about being upset by past atrocities by past rulers of Tibet, then surely he’d be upset when mentioning Mao. I’m certain Mao in absolute numbers was responsible for vastly more deaths of his own people.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#92

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

beaunative wrote: post #89

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all but the last point: the current DL never had a chance to change anything in Tibet as he was very young when the Chinese invaded, but he was bent on to doing this in spite of opposition[0]: > In May 1990, as a result of His Holiness’s reforms the Tibetan administration in exile was fully democratized. The Tibetan Cabinet (Kashag), which until then had been appointed by His Holiness, was dissolved alon…

Well, monarch are not just who they are, they are also what they represent. However, I agree the current DL likely never had the chance, but I don't support that he should be granted the chance. I suspect he will reform even as an adult, had he remained a monarch. All in all, he carries the lineage then he bears and sins and glories associated with it alike.

I feel that we all people educated in the West might not be able to fully understand the mentality of the whole society at question and the difficulty of the reform from the top. The efforts of the Bhutanese king are a good example. "Yes, we will become a democracy but only to fulfill your will, Your Majesty", "Yes, we will go to vote but only to make you happy, YM". They really think their king is excellent (I'm not saying he's not) and that whoever will be chosen will be inferior (we don't know, but we can't rule it out). Someone changing the very fabric of the society will always meet with an enormous amount of opposition, and will often fail.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#93

Post by hdjjhhvvhga » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

est wrote: post #85

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot disagree. It was similar in Central Europe, for example in the Kingdom of Hungary the feudal system ended in 1931, some hundreds years later than in France. On the other hand, I know several people whose lives are made worse by the occupation. There was a period of some limited freedom a few decades ago, now it seems worse. As a Westerner you can't just visit Tibet and go where you want. And when you go ther…

You are just regretting the fact Tibet is no longer a large anthropology zoo that westerners can freely visit and observe, like the romance recorded by Ernst Schäfer or James Hilton in the 30s. It's mystic, primitive and slavery culture destroyed by CCP while locals are adopting welfare and education and modernizing to yet another indifferentiable boring place like an average Chinese town.

It was never a zoo. The lamas weren't keen on letting visitors in, and the Chinese continue this tradition, although they will kindly let you in a few known places if you agree to be under constant surveillance.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#94

Post by birksherty » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:10 PM UTC

approxim8ion wrote: post #90

parrellel wrote: post #30

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Yes, only Americans seem to have any degree of agency or capability of having unbiased discussions online.

I don't see comments that heavily support us gov and try to change topics like the chinese one do. So your sarcasm is false and let's not change the topic here again.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#95

Post by arvigeus » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

I find it amusing how the ex president of USA is banned from social media, while Chinese propaganda is left mostly untouched.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#96

Post by parrellel » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

approxim8ion wrote: post #90

parrellel wrote: post #30

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Yes, only Americans seem to have any degree of agency or capability of having unbiased discussions online.

God no, we've got our own bizarre horrorshows.

But I don't think I've ever seen that political reflex as strongly in Americans nearly as much. It's like for some topics (Tibet, Human Rights, Tienanmen, etc) they're stuck at the height of the Freedom Fries / Dixie Chicks rage machine after 9/11.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#97

Post by pas » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #70

pas wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to trust anyone fully. In fact it's imperative to try to apply critical thinking to information that you encounter. (Both to counteract one's own and the other party's biases.) That said, one group has a history of shady (and overt) shit (from internment of Japanese Americans during WWII to MK Ultra to all the horrible things that have been unearthed during the years via FOIA, whistleblowers, investiga…

It helps plenty, because it highlights the fact that one party is slandering another. Even though they're both equally bad. You have a finite amount of worrying in you, so shifting your focus to something else helps them get away with more themselves. To my mind this means that when such news comes from a party that is just a pot calling a kettle black, that's quite close to evidence of a guilty conscience.

Umm. Usually it's not slander/libel. It's easy to find shit to throw at each other. That's why it unhelpful, because it doesn't help giving people a model with real predictive power.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#98

Post by toss1 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #59

est wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DL was a monster, killer, some demonic being aiming at the destruction of China Or he is a democratically elected peaceful spiritual leader (like a reincarnated pope) from an independent theocratic serfdom kingdom?

This is the general tone that China justifies the invasion: Tibet was feudal, people were slaves, we liberated them, now everybody is happy. There had been many bad things going on in Tibet, but it does not mean you can just invade the country, destroy all forms of religion, put people in prisons, starve and kill your victims, grab the resources, make the life of Tibetans miserable, and pretend you are the great libe…

Yup, and let's be even more clear about this.

This Chinese tone that "justifies" the invasion creates these kinds of side discussions, which serves the same purpose as Whataboutism, even if that isn't the intent of the speaker/writer.

A thought experiment: Assume that Tibet was actually some kind of horrific feudal empire that did whatever horrible things to its people you can imagine.

Even if that is some kind of justification for an invasion, e.g., the people had pleaded with the CCP to get freed - which they did not, it is CCP's actions ever since the invasion that betray's their intent.

If the goal had been to free the Tibetean people, they would have removed the leadership, which was done in days, and then freed the people. But CCP has done the opposite, consistently holding more tightly to the land, eliminating the Tibetian's culture and freedom, and claiming ownership.

It is as if the US had not only invaded Iraq to remove the dictator who annexed adjacent countries, but then claimed the land and oil as it's own, and also started systematically removing all mosques, moving US families into each town, and imposing American culture on Iraq.

China are illegitimate occupiers, and wrongfully claim stolen Tibetan territory as their own. Full Stop.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#99

Post by mikem170 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

beaunative wrote: post #82

serial_dev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a Chinese-only thing. I had a coworker from Spain, he was very "balanced" and reasonable on all things. One day, during the 2017 Catalan independence protests and referendum, we (non-Spanish people) tried to understand the different arguments and the current situation, and someone mentioned that IF (we didn't say it was the case, we said IF) one day the overwhelming majority of Catalonia wants to l…

I think the thing is, you associate yourself with a national indentity, almost every one does. And when you do, you treat attacks or seemingly-attacks on that nation as attacks on yourself, hence the anger. Propaganda alone would never explain it, I think we tend to treat the problems of our nation as problems of our own. It is normal to get defensive on these things.

Nations engage in a lot of propaganda themselves to ensure their citizens feel that way, things like the pledge of allegiance every day in school, the way history is taught, the anthems before football games, national news and what is presented by journalists and politicians, etc.

I assume people would identify with more local groups, if left to their own devices. National politics usually seems to revolve around bigger is better, even if they have to force people to remain.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#100

Post by mikem170 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 3:02 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #44

zensavona wrote: post #20

FYI for those skeptical about pro-China propaganda online: Chinese channel with fake videos about how there is not really a genocide going on in Xinjiang: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5hykSm2o7oRpOyFrMYjeBg This girl is actually responding to a video exposing these ridiculous videos, trying to make the argument that the criticism is actually anti-China propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUmBDJPX6k Rand…

laowhy is an excellent channel.

Used to be while he was actually in China.

Apparently he had some trouble with the authorities, falling on the wrong side of some rules that apply to journalists, and left the country in a hurry.

After that it seems that he found that he could get more clicks/money with sensationalists anti-China content. Not nearly as good as his prior content.