How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda • Hacker News Board

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#41

Post by coldtea » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 7:50 AM UTC

go_elmo wrote: post #37

coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BBC is basically a UK foreign policy tool, not some saviour of democracy...

no one assumed that? The point is everyone can say whatever that person wants, including ANY journalists. Being afraid of some "government policy" is a paranoia coming from countries where the first point does not apply, projecting their own fears to others

>Being afraid of some "government policy" is a paranoia coming from countries where the first point does not apply

So like a long tradition from Gary Webb to Assange, cancel culture, attacks on the integrity and reputation (and de-platforming) of people like Taibbi or Greenwald, and so on?

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#42

Post by redis_mlc » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 7:50 AM UTC

jlduan wrote: post #14

yesbut wrote: post #3

I wonder how it stacks up to the fake network pushing anti-China propaganda.

How The Epoch Times Created a Giant Influence Machine "Since 2016, the Falun Gong-backed newspaper has used aggressive Facebook tactics and right-wing misinformation to create an anti-China, pro-Trump media empire." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/technology/epoch-times-in...

[dead]

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#43

Post by pydry » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 7:50 AM UTC

parrellel wrote: post #30

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Which comments specifically?

I've never seen anything that looks like wumao on HN. On reddit theyre usually pretty obvious.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#44

Post by pydry » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 7:59 AM UTC

zensavona wrote: post #20

FYI for those skeptical about pro-China propaganda online: Chinese channel with fake videos about how there is not really a genocide going on in Xinjiang: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5hykSm2o7oRpOyFrMYjeBg This girl is actually responding to a video exposing these ridiculous videos, trying to make the argument that the criticism is actually anti-China propaganda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYUmBDJPX6k Rand…

laowhy is an excellent channel.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#45

Post by throwSZ99 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 8:04 AM UTC

go_elmo wrote: post #18

Interesting, didnt know so many here are allergic to negative mentions of china, reacting with bbc flaming. Like cmon its just a dictatorship, accept it.

> allergic to negative mentions of china

Not exactly. Some of us would rather first and primarily focus on the disinfo artists who are destroying Western democracies than point the finger at a country that doesn't claim to be free and fair and open.

Pot, meet kettle: from the Wikipedia entry on Britain's GCHQ JTRIG unit: 'The scope of the JTRIG's mission includes using "dirty tricks" to "destroy, deny, degrade [and] disrupt" enemies by "discrediting" them, planting misinformation and shutting down their communications.'

And: 'In 2011, the JTRIG conducted a denial-of-service attack (DoS) on the activist network Anonymous.[1] Other JTRIG targets have included the government of Iran and the Taliban in Afghanistan.[2]

Campaigns operated by JTRIG have broadly fallen into two categories; cyber attacks and propaganda efforts.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intellig...

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#46

Post by serial_dev » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 8:16 AM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #34

parrellel wrote: post #30

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Yeah I remember I had a colleague, a Chinese student, very nice person, we were going along nicely, until one day I mentioned the Dalai Lama, and he exploded. It seems like the brainwashing was very successful - he believed that the DL was a monster, killer, some demonic being aiming at the destruction of China and so on. I couldn't believe my ears. This person seemed otherwise completely normal.

I don't think it's a Chinese-only thing.

I had a coworker from Spain, he was very "balanced" and reasonable on all things. One day, during the 2017 Catalan independence protests and referendum, we (non-Spanish people) tried to understand the different arguments and the current situation, and someone mentioned that IF (we didn't say it was the case, we said IF) one day the overwhelming majority of Catalonia wants to leave Spain for whatever reason, an option for "amicable" split would be preferable over a revolution.

He completely snapped, said all kinds of very mean things about Catalonia, that I don't want to repeat here, but my point is that it's very difficult to view these things from a different perspective and do not get emotional if all your life you heard only one perspective.

I noticed similar tendencies from people from every country that are in the news and are somewhat controversial (Israel, Palestine, Pakistan, US, Poland, Ireland just to name a few).

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#47

Post by pas » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 8:20 AM UTC

beebeepka wrote: post #19

yesbut wrote: post #3

I wonder how it stacks up to the fake network pushing anti-China propaganda.

Exactly. The rivals of the current status quo are bad and cannot be trusted! We only have to trust the people who pillaged Iraq under false pretences.

You don't have to trust anyone fully. In fact it's imperative to try to apply critical thinking to information that you encounter. (Both to counteract one's own and the other party's biases.)

That said, one group has a history of shady (and overt) shit (from internment of Japanese Americans during WWII to MK Ultra to all the horrible things that have been unearthed during the years via FOIA, whistleblowers, investigative journalism, the culture of respecting the protection of journalists' sources) and the other group is currently operating concentration camps, is actively hostile toward investigative journalists, actively subverts any independent power structure (see the brutal suppression of Hong Kong politics).

Of course it's important to put things into perspective. Both Room 641A and the Great Firewall are bad things. Both countries (and the groups that run these regions) have a lot of things to improve on. But the simple both sides whataboutism does not help here at all.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#48

Post by throwSZ99 » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 8:21 AM UTC

parrellel wrote: post #30

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into i…

Why should Westerners care about a "sprawling network of more than 350 fake social media profiles" when our own governments have been lying to us and spewing propaganda about almost everything of importance for DECADES? See my comment about GCHQ's JTRIG unit elsewhere on this page.

Western propaganda campaigns are often a prelude to war. And they usually deploy several orders of magnitude more assets than "350 fake social media profiles." Remember WMDs in Iraq, Libya and Gaddafi, babies in incubators? I have no interest in unquestioningly accepting the BBC's version of what's important. If we let our psycho warmongers start another war based on lies, millions will die on both sides.

See Thucydides Trap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#49

Post by pydry » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 8:23 AM UTC

go_elmo wrote: post #37

coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BBC is basically a UK foreign policy tool, not some saviour of democracy...

no one assumed that? The point is everyone can say whatever that person wants, including ANY journalists. Being afraid of some "government policy" is a paranoia coming from countries where the first point does not apply, projecting their own fears to others

>The point is everyone can say whatever that person wants

This works fine if everybody's voice has equal weights but some have louder megaphones than others. Their voices matter disproportionately more.

Re: How a fake network pushes pro-China propaganda

#50

Post by trasz » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 8:33 AM UTC

pas wrote: post #47

beebeepka wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The rivals of the current status quo are bad and cannot be trusted! We only have to trust the people who pillaged Iraq under false pretences.

You don't have to trust anyone fully. In fact it's imperative to try to apply critical thinking to information that you encounter. (Both to counteract one's own and the other party's biases.) That said, one group has a history of shady (and overt) shit (from internment of Japanese Americans during WWII to MK Ultra to all the horrible things that have been unearthed during the years via FOIA, whistleblowers, investiga…

I find using the term “concentration camp” for something that resembles a youth correctional facility somewhat dishonest.