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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#91

Post by easton »

hakfoo wrote: post #73
azalemeth wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As ever with security questions, the answer to that depends a lot on your threat model. Microsoft say that the main features of TPMs are that they [1]: > Generate, store, and limit the use of cryptographic keys. > Use TPM technology for platform device authentication by using the TPM’s unique RSA key, which is burned into itself. > Help ensure platform integrity by taking and storing security measurements. One can, i…

I'm worried that pushing whole-disc encryption at people who aren't aware of the consequences is a huge risk. I suspect for most consumer and small-business users, the risk of "a power surge blew out my motherboard and TPM, but I can take the surviving SSD and plunk it in a new PC and salvage my data" is a much more important use case than "someone might steal my PC and get at my valuable unencrypted data." I know we…

In Windows 10 today, enabling BitLocker backups the keys to your AAD/Microsoft Account (depending on Home or Pro). If you hook the drive to another Windows machine you should be able to decrypt it with not a lot of trouble (you might have to log into the Azure Portal to pull the keys out if you are in a corporate environment, but that's it).

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#92

Post by jmkni »

sedatk wrote: post #9

I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.

Is it abritary? I was wondering if limiting to new to newer CPU's would enable them to stop supporting/rip out a load of legacy code?

Also, is this actually a good opportuinty for Desktop Linux?

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#93

Post by userbinator »

This shouldn't be too surprising, given that Microsoft is also against right-to-repair...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20318882

..."because security". Securing what, exactly? Their profits and control. They don't want you using older systems because they have less control without a TPM and all the other horrors of Trusted Computing that come with it, such as remote attestation.

It sounds almost conspiratorial, but I think this move by MS is just another step towards the "you will own nothing" trend of companies slowly herding their users with more and more restrictions and "beating them into submission", so they can extract more profits from them.

I have zero "smart devices" in my home. My decades old car and other appliances listen only to me, are simple and easily repaired, and last a long time. My PC is slightly over a decade, but it's plenty fast for what I need to use it for. Others have made the safety/security argument to attempt to get me to replace them, and those arguments have likely convinced others, but I know what they're trying to get me into --- and very, very strongly oppose.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#94

Post by GekkePrutser »

rzzzt wrote: post #49
fddddd wrote: post #13

people are forgetting w11 will be the useless windows version. everyone knows that between actual windows versions (3, 95, vista, xp, 10) there are the BS money making by selling flashy badges to PC OEM manufacturers (98, me, forgot the name , 8) so obviously w11 can be safely ignored by everyone.

Isn't Vista the arch nemesis of 7? Also 95 is not too great but 98 is definitely not the bad cop, especially SE. Windows ME on the other hand... 2000 is also pretty cool, but didn't show up on the list, and not sure where the NT releases 3 and 4 would go.

I thought 95 was better than 98 - faster and less bloated. Just the USB support was lacking but OSR2 fixed that mostly.

2000 was definitely better than XP in my book. Of course ME was a complete and total turd. But it was only built in a couple months after MS changed their mind about Windows 2000 personal edition.

But really in my book XP was Windows 2000 Bloatware Edition. Same with 98 over 95.

With Vista it went the opposite way though, Vista was all glossy/bloaty and Win7 fixed that. And don't start me on Windows 8, that was just a terrible POS on the desktop, with its huge start screen. Nice idea on a tablet, terrible on the desktop.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#95

Post by contravariant »

ehsankia wrote: post #34
eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

I've got a 10 year old PC right now using decent but not amazingly high end hardware (at the time), other than a slightly limited memory capacity it's still on par with my current (mid/high-end-ish) laptop.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#96

Post by mjevans »

eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

I know someone that had to replace a Ryzen 1xxx (1st gen) chip recently because games and other things kept crashing. They realized this was the case shortly after the warranty elapsed.

As a supposition, it might be the previously reported "Linux specific" issue for (pre week 30?) batch Ryzen 1 CPUs affecting Windows at last as well.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Se...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=new-ryze...

The second link confirms this instability was present in Ryzen 1 units from week 25, and speculation is that week 30+ are safe. Further complicating matters, there's no reported way of examining this data short of visually inspecting the top of the thermal interface: with thermal paste removed.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#97

Post by numpad0 »

eric__cartman wrote: post #60
ehsankia wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

i7-2700K is not just usable, it’s faster than Pentium G5600(8th Gen) and on par with i3-8100(8th Gen) in most benchmarks without overclocking.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#98

Post by jbluepolarbear »

This is going to kill adoption of the new gaming features. I am really excited for Direct Storage on windows, but what incentive do the developers have to support it if only a small subset of their users have machines new enough to run it. This is exactly the same as the DirectX 10 disaster on Vista. It took a long time for developers to switch from 9 to 10. Most skipped 10 for 11 because it had the same windows support. And direct storage is locked to windows 11. Microsoft, you want to be a gaming powerhouse? Maybe listen to developers and stop listening to your executives that don’t understand. Games ported from Xbox Series X will be unable to run on Windows 10 if they require direct storage support.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#99

Post by mikl »

This assumes that owners of functioning Win10 machines will decide to throw them away just to get Win11.

I don’t think that’s a reasonable assumption for the large majority of users. If someone cares enough about having the latest (if not greatest) version, they are likely also upgrading their hardware frequently already.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#100

Post by merb »

mjevans wrote: post #96
eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

I know someone that had to replace a Ryzen 1xxx (1st gen) chip recently because games and other things kept crashing. They realized this was the case shortly after the warranty elapsed. As a supposition, it might be the previously reported "Linux specific" issue for (pre week 30?) batch Ryzen 1 CPUs affecting Windows at last as well. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Se... https://www.phoronix…

what's even more strange is that ryzen 1st gen chips in fact do have a tpm v2.
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