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AWS BugBust

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Re: AWS BugBust

#91

Post by jedberg »

pyjug wrote: post #89
jedberg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would an engineer at Netflix ever “play this game” to win ? I think you're missing the point. The leaderboard is an extra bonus. The main thing is squashing bugs you were already squashing. But yes, there are definitely engineers at Netflix who would play this to "win", just for the love of the game. But let me relate another similar story -- when Amazon released the Deepracer, they added a leaderboard. All around…

You didn’t address whether engineers at Netflix would put up with this. > I'm pretty sure that is what they are going for here with the global leaderboard Sorry, I’m confused. This seems like a change in your position? Earlier you argued the intent is for employees to be able to showcase their skill to recruiters… you also responded to someone else who said they already have recruiter attention with “you are not thei…

> Sorry, I’m confused. This seems like a change in your position?

There is a benefit to both employees and employers. Being on the leaderboard benefits the employee because it raises their profile. Having an employee on the leaderboard, as an employer, also raises the company's profile. It's like how companies send people to conferences to talk. It benefits the employee by raising their profile but also benefits the company.

> I’m asking you in good faith. Why the contortions to defend such a product?

I'm not really making contortions. This product is aimed at large enterprises. It's not aimed at startups (so I would never suggest it for any company I invest in) and it's not aimed at companies that are already well known (FAANG). It's aimed at the 1000s of other large enterprises out there who want to incentivize their employees with some prizes to do a job they're hopefully already doing while also possibly raising the company profile a bit by having people show up on the leaderboard.

But it definitely solves a problem for it's target audience, which you don't seem to be a part of. I am not their target audience either. But I see the value to their target audience.

Re: AWS BugBust

#92

Post by theli0nheart »

slownews45 wrote: post #60
theli0nheart wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the bug buster benefits if they get up high on the leaderboard, because job recruiters will most likely use the leaderboard for lead gen. If you're looking to make a job move, moving up on the leaderboard will help. I already get plenty of recruiting inbound without having to donate my time to fix bugs for Internet Points. What you're saying is that this is a worthy use of time for people because they'll mayb…

How are you employed if you won't fix bugs. These types of devs are so annoying to be around. Crank out weird esoteric hard to read code using every weird meta feature / reflections / introspections they can. Then "hard pass" on fixing bugs as a waste of time. You do realize most developers are asked to fix bugs anyways, regardless of any silly competition? Their pitch to Organizations is that 1) They may be able to…

> How are you employed if you won't fix bugs. These types of devs are so annoying to be around. Crank out weird esoteric hard to read code using every weird meta feature / reflections / introspections they can. Then "hard pass" on fixing bugs as a waste of time.

You misread pretty much everything I wrote. My original comment wasn't an explanation for why fixing bugs in general is a "waste of time". My opinion is that uploading your code to this service that uses ML to automatically generate bugs for your team to do a bug bash on is a waste of time.

Our bug backlog has hundreds, if not thousands, of bugs already. We don't need to rely on ML to tell us what to fix.

We have real issues that customers are facing that need immediate attention. This is just a total distraction and a waste of time.

Re: AWS BugBust

#93

Post by mdaniel »

zamadatix wrote: post #58
garblegarble wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my point - Amazon have given that figure as their estimated savings, so either that's an insanely overinflated figure, or my point stands and if you save one of their clients several tens of thousands of dollars they'll give you a "prize" of a tshirt. They probably spent more money producing that video than they will pay for all the t-shirts they'll give out. $77,000 for a t-shirt. $1,500,000 for a jac…

I think you misunderstand, you fix your own code not somebody else's. The BugBust is basically them advertising trying out their new CodeGuru analysis tools for free and sending some prizes to the ones that use it the most.

> trying out their new CodeGuru analysis tools for free

I for sure did not get that impression; where did you see they're offering free analysis?

Re: AWS BugBust

#94

Post by judge2020 »

whoisjuan wrote: post #63

This is so hard to understand. It seems like a service to create fixatons or bug bashing events in you org, but they also say it's a global competition (?) I fail to understand the value of this. Seems to me like they want you to use and pay for CodeGuru, which will tell you shit about your codebase. Then you can import those issues into some sort of campaign inside this BugBust thing so you can create competitions a…

Maybe it's for product managers that see 'low productivity' and are trying any sort of program or incentive to increase productivity/output...

Re: AWS BugBust

#95

Post by catbuttes »

theli0nheart wrote: post #44
jedberg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The companies that put up the contest benefits. For a lot of people at a lot of companies, a trip to re:invent is a huge prize. If your job is to fix bugs anyway, now your company just incentivized you to do it more and in your off time to win that prize. Also, the bug buster benefits if they get up high on the leaderboard, because job recruiters will most likely use the leaderboard for lead gen. If you're looking to…

> Also, the bug buster benefits if they get up high on the leaderboard, because job recruiters will most likely use the leaderboard for lead gen. If you're looking to make a job move, moving up on the leaderboard will help. I already get plenty of recruiting inbound without having to donate my time to fix bugs for Internet Points. What you're saying is that this is a worthy use of time for people because they'll mayb…

> We will pay you with exposure...

Re: AWS BugBust

#96

Post by pyjug »

jedberg wrote: post #91
pyjug wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t address whether engineers at Netflix would put up with this. > I'm pretty sure that is what they are going for here with the global leaderboard Sorry, I’m confused. This seems like a change in your position? Earlier you argued the intent is for employees to be able to showcase their skill to recruiters… you also responded to someone else who said they already have recruiter attention with “you are not thei…

> Sorry, I’m confused. This seems like a change in your position? There is a benefit to both employees and employers. Being on the leaderboard benefits the employee because it raises their profile. Having an employee on the leaderboard, as an employer, also raises the company's profile. It's like how companies send people to conferences to talk. It benefits the employee by raising their profile but also benefits the…

> I'm not really making contortions

I would politely disagree — in any case the thread is there for all to judge.

If you sincerely believe that this is a product that should exist and will positively impact everyone involved, I can only hope you’re right [0]. In the end it’s all up to your conscience, but I do wish our leaders in tech were a bit more sensitive to seeing the broader picture.

[0]: pour one out for all the naive devs that will no doubt sink 100s of hours to be on the leaderboard for little benefit to them.

Re: AWS BugBust

#97

Post by jjav »

jedberg wrote: post #82
bogwog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So by participating in this, a company is making their own employees more attractive to recruiters?

No the company is getting some extra structure to their bug bash with some prizes provided by Amazon, as well as being able to recruit other people by pointing out how good their current people are (because they are on the leaderboard).

Everything about this seems like a sketch out of The Office (if they were a software company).

Re: AWS BugBust

#98

Post by zamadatix »

mdaniel wrote: post #93
zamadatix wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand, you fix your own code not somebody else's. The BugBust is basically them advertising trying out their new CodeGuru analysis tools for free and sending some prizes to the ones that use it the most.

> trying out their new CodeGuru analysis tools for free I for sure did not get that impression; where did you see they're offering free analysis?

The pricing/FAQ/Sign up page on the actual BugBust site linked all tell you. E.g. from the pricing tab:

> When you create your first AWS BugBust event, all costs incurred by the underlying usage of Amazon CodeGuru Reviewer and Amazon CodeGuru Profiler are free of charge for 30 days per AWS account.

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