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Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

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Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#91

Post by meristohm »

0_gravitas wrote: post #27

Awesome, love this bit mentioned: ``` “It is sometimes argued that … [the creation of part-human chimeras] will undermine an important moral view: that it matters, morally, which species we belong to,” the report reads. ”This argument assumes that we ought to preserve the view that boundaries between species are fixed, natural, and morally relevant, with full moral status reserved exclusively for humans. Yet even if…

Something that contributed to caring about all life on this earth was understanding it will likely not last forever, either due to the sun expanding or, ultimately, cooling near zero. Related song: Born to Die, by Kelly Clarkson

Off-topic, but responding regarding US schools: as a licensed physics teacher I generally agree; schools are holding pens, with an upside of strengthening peer-bonds through suffering together. The experience that best lined up with helping students find joy in learning (so they might continue on their own, at the library, etc) was teaching at an alternative public school. The small team of teachers was able to get to know all the students (in a community-size below Dumbar’s number) enough to genuinely care and get closer to meeting individual needs, as if everyone were on an IEP (individualized education plan). I don’t know what changes to prioritize except early-childhood education to minimize trauma and educate our first teachers (parents). It’s a big, complex system with inertia.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#92

Post by scrollaway »

rsyring wrote: post #49
zokier wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much brain capacity those terminated embryos have though??

How much brain capacity does a human adult have after a catastrophic brain injury or significant dementia? Are you sure you really want this to be the basis on which we decide the morality of terminating life?

There's a solid difference between a laissez-faire "whatever let's just kill it" attitude you might have with a mosquito, and the morality of, for example, assisted suicide in the cases you just described.

I get what you're getting at but I don't think your example serves to make your point. Keeping people alive against their wishes can be really fucking barbaric, especially in cases of irreparably debilitating brain injuries.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#93

Post by brbsix »

PostOnce wrote: post #88
mullingitover wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you finish reading the article? > After 10 days, there were 103 of these chimeric embryos remaining, but by day 19 only three still survived. After that, the embryos were terminated before they developed any further. Clusters of cells can't be 'tortured in a lab,' there are plenty of legitimate problems in the world to be outraged about but this really isn't one of them.

Okay, on day 19 three of them are clusters of cells, how about day 280? How about year 5? I think the argument is that a majority of people would find it unethical to continue to develop viable embryos, and even more unethical to conduct research on them were they to mature.

Research is already performed using human fetal tissue obtained from aborted fetuses. How is this significantly different?

"A majority of people would find it unethical to continue to develop viable embryos" seems contradictory to the current legal status of abortion in the US. Perhaps it is unethical but worth doing regardless?

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#95

Post by mullingitover »

PostOnce wrote: post #88
mullingitover wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you finish reading the article? > After 10 days, there were 103 of these chimeric embryos remaining, but by day 19 only three still survived. After that, the embryos were terminated before they developed any further. Clusters of cells can't be 'tortured in a lab,' there are plenty of legitimate problems in the world to be outraged about but this really isn't one of them.

Okay, on day 19 three of them are clusters of cells, how about day 280? How about year 5? I think the argument is that a majority of people would find it unethical to continue to develop viable embryos, and even more unethical to conduct research on them were they to mature.

What if we gave a dog a human brain? What if we gave a robot a human consciousness? Just offering some more scenarios that didn't happen.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#96

Post by slumdev »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #46
deertick1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow what a ridiculously asinine and misleading comment (the qouted comment, not the HN comment). The moral reprehensibility of such an experiment is not the result of humans treating any other species as lesser, morally- rather, it is because it is immoral to create something sentient which has not been created by natural processes. To bring a sentient being into the world which is created by human engineering proces…

So, are trans folks immoral? Organ transplants? Prosthetics? Where do you draw the line?

> So, are trans folks immoral?

Yes.

> Organ transplants?

OK, as long as they were taken from someone who was actually dead. Not all organs can be taken after death. In these cases, the transplant surgeon ends the donor's life in the process of harvesting.

> Prosthetics?

OK.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#97

Post by rxhernandez »

deertick1 wrote: post #61
nvrspyx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that doesn't abhor religion, the following isn't meant as argumentative, but rather curiosity: > Religion serves a very important role in society and we abandon it at our peril. What "important role" might that be? I don't see the necessity of religion and don't think there's anything inherent of religions that can't be supplemented by the surrounding culture.

I think that reasoning about morality without an irrational, faith-based approach leads to a "slippery slope" if you will of reasoning. Essentially, I believe that the fundamental utility of religion is that it provides a framework for morality which is external to logic : therefore it allows one to establish moral barriers which cannot be cross regardless of any logical rationalization. This is important when consid…

Empathy stops people from doing awful things pretty regularly. Moreover, many religions allow people to subvert their empathy w.r.t. people who don't fit heteronormative standards. Hell, some sects of Christianity are pretty awful to women.

I don't see a use for religion other than to allow people to skirt their responsibility in having/maintaining a mature line of empathy.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#98

Post by em-bee »

mb_72 wrote: post #50
deertick1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow what a ridiculously asinine and misleading comment (the qouted comment, not the HN comment). The moral reprehensibility of such an experiment is not the result of humans treating any other species as lesser, morally- rather, it is because it is immoral to create something sentient which has not been created by natural processes. To bring a sentient being into the world which is created by human engineering proces…

"...create something which is horribly mutated, fucked up genetically, and experiences only pain for its entire life." 'God' does this all the time already. Friends of mine recently had a baby girl; she is missing part of one of her chromosomes. The family is very religious, and is being torn apart trying to understand how their 'loving God' could have done such a thing. So this 'morality' you speak of is making a tr…

i heard someone make this interesting observation: handicapped people could be a test of god for the rest of us.

but your friends may also consider this:

any suffering in this life is rewarded in the next life (the life after death)

god doesn't give us tests that we couldn't possibly pass.

if you are compassionate, i hope you won't ridicule your friends for their belief but try to help them come to terms with their situation using their own belief to strengthen them

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#99

Post by colordrops »

0_gravitas wrote: post #27

Awesome, love this bit mentioned: ``` “It is sometimes argued that … [the creation of part-human chimeras] will undermine an important moral view: that it matters, morally, which species we belong to,” the report reads. ”This argument assumes that we ought to preserve the view that boundaries between species are fixed, natural, and morally relevant, with full moral status reserved exclusively for humans. Yet even if…

I'd like to believe that something like this would lead to only eating fruit that has fallen from the tree and started to rot, and people wearing face masks at all times and sweeping the ground in front of them as they walk to avoid killing anything, but it will probably go the other way - a caste system would form.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#100

Post by arcticbull »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #85
nvrspyx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that doesn't abhor religion, the following isn't meant as argumentative, but rather curiosity: > Religion serves a very important role in society and we abandon it at our peril. What "important role" might that be? I don't see the necessity of religion and don't think there's anything inherent of religions that can't be supplemented by the surrounding culture.

In my travels around the U.S., I encountered many institutions helping the disadvantaged, and almost all of them were religious, mostly Christian or spiritual. I don't know any other organization or entity feeding, clothing, listening, aiding those who need it, day in and day out, giving time and effort and resources without expecting anything in return. No photo ops or social media posts. With Christianity supposedl…

Some would argue it's the role of the state to look after the disadvantaged. This model works very well in much of the OECD. Conflating religion and welfare is not a winning combo imo. Further, the state can do so in a way that doesn't impose, foist or solicit religion on the poor.
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