Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

newatlas.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 250 posts

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#61

Post by deertick1 »

nvrspyx wrote: post #59
deertick1 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh like I said I was not as concise as I would like to have been in my comment : IVF is not creating a completely new, engineered organism. Not really what I am talking about. And man, the idea that religion has no place in the modern world would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Religion serves a veokry important role in society and we abandon it at our peril. I am sorry to hear about your friend, but this is re…

As someone that doesn't abhor religion, the following isn't meant as argumentative, but rather curiosity: > Religion serves a very important role in society and we abandon it at our peril. What "important role" might that be? I don't see the necessity of religion and don't think there's anything inherent of religions that can't be supplemented by the surrounding culture.

I think that reasoning about morality without an irrational, faith-based approach leads to a "slippery slope" if you will of reasoning. Essentially, I believe that the fundamental utility of religion is that it provides a framework for morality which is external to logic : therefore it allows one to establish moral barriers which cannot be cross regardless of any logical rationalization. This is important when considering things like eugenics - there are rational lines of thought that lead you to very very ugly conclusions. If you have an arational "hard stop" at the personal and societal level, we avoid these situations.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#62

Post by dqpb »

deertick1 wrote: post #58
dqpb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is immoral to create something sentient which has not been created by natural processes I disagree on two parts: 1. I think it’s immoral to oppose the creation of sentient beings. 2. If we create sentient beings, those beings will have been created by a natural process, because we (and our actions) are natural processes.

Interesting points. Personally, not sure I agree with 1. Lots of scenarios where creating a sentient being would be bad - like if that being can only experience endless pain. On point 2 : well you got me there. Let me be more precise : its not the "natural processes" part that is important, but my point was rather that this type of hybridizing results in the creation of organisms which have not been time tested and w…

Both of your objections are true for natural evolution.

> “time tested and weathered the refining pressures of evolution”

Those refining pressures are not kind or gentle.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#63

Post by sebmellen »

I am by no means whatsoever an Alex Jones listener or fan. But he's been laughed at for proclaiming that human/animal hybrids are being "developed" for some time now (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa9jXkVpnw0, for example).

It's scary to see this article because it's essentially "proving" Alex Jones right. This is a very bad precedent.

The issue at hand is serious, but it's obscured because of the comedic/crazy veil that Jones's delivery and accompanying distortion/exaggeration of the facts causes.

This reminds me of his erroneous "they're turning the friggin' frogs gay" comment, which has links in a serious issue — atrazine feminizing male frogs: https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs/.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#64

Post by Edman274 »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #46
deertick1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow what a ridiculously asinine and misleading comment (the qouted comment, not the HN comment). The moral reprehensibility of such an experiment is not the result of humans treating any other species as lesser, morally- rather, it is because it is immoral to create something sentient which has not been created by natural processes. To bring a sentient being into the world which is created by human engineering proces…

So, are trans folks immoral? Organ transplants? Prosthetics? Where do you draw the line?

It would absolutely be immoral to genetically engineer a human to be born so that their gender identity and their biological form don't match. It would absolutely be immoral to genetically engineer a human so that they need to have organ transplants. It would absolutely be immoral to have scientists in the lab spend years doing research on how to create a human being that will be born needing to use a prosthetic leg.

I don't think anyone is saying that if a fucking Frankenstein's monster human/monkey hybrid were engineered, that people would say that the chimera itself had committed an immoral act. They would say that it was wrong to make that thing. You don't even understand what point you're trying to make.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#65

Post by xupybd »

themgt wrote: post #60

These chimeras pave the way for more accurate models of human biology and disease The goal, the team says, is to make better models for studying biological development, evolution, disease progression and treatments. "As we are unable to conduct certain types of experiments in humans, it is essential that we have better models to more accurately study and understand human biology and disease," Interestingly, the revie…

Thank you for pointing this out!

I also think it's a dangerous point to try and make. We should put human life first.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#66

Post by Lammy »

sebmellen wrote: post #63

I am by no means whatsoever an Alex Jones listener or fan. But he's been laughed at for proclaiming that human/animal hybrids are being "developed" for some time now (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa9jXkVpnw0 , for example). It's scary to see this article because it's essentially "proving" Alex Jones right. This is a very bad precedent. The issue at hand is serious, but it's obscured because of the comedic/craz…

If you'd rather have Nerd Cred just say you got the idea from the secret mission in StarCraft Brood War https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Origin

Life imitates art, after all.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#67

Post by caconym_ »

themgt wrote: post #60

These chimeras pave the way for more accurate models of human biology and disease The goal, the team says, is to make better models for studying biological development, evolution, disease progression and treatments. "As we are unable to conduct certain types of experiments in humans, it is essential that we have better models to more accurately study and understand human biology and disease," Interestingly, the revie…

It seems contradictory to suggest at the same time that a) these hybrids might teach us that the line between humans and animals isn't as stark as a lot of people think, and b) these hybrids will not be human and therefore will be suitable for medical research that could not be ethically performed on "real" humans.

If you buy the former, it seems to suggest we should be going in the opposite direction with the latter.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#68

Post by ethbr0 »

deertick1 wrote: post #55
mb_72 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...create something which is horribly mutated, fucked up genetically, and experiences only pain for its entire life." 'God' does this all the time already. Friends of mine recently had a baby girl; she is missing part of one of her chromosomes. The family is very religious, and is being torn apart trying to understand how their 'loving God' could have done such a thing. So this 'morality' you speak of is making a tr…

Eh like I said I was not as concise as I would like to have been in my comment : IVF is not creating a completely new, engineered organism. Not really what I am talking about. And man, the idea that religion has no place in the modern world would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. Religion serves a veokry important role in society and we abandon it at our peril. I am sorry to hear about your friend, but this is re…

> IVF is not creating a completely new, engineered organism

IVF seems pretty un-natural...

It's not too clear what "completely new, engineered organism" line you're taking here.

Re: Human-monkey chimera embryos created in lab

#70

Post by maroonblazer »

deertick1 wrote: post #58
dqpb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is immoral to create something sentient which has not been created by natural processes I disagree on two parts: 1. I think it’s immoral to oppose the creation of sentient beings. 2. If we create sentient beings, those beings will have been created by a natural process, because we (and our actions) are natural processes.

Interesting points. Personally, not sure I agree with 1. Lots of scenarios where creating a sentient being would be bad - like if that being can only experience endless pain. On point 2 : well you got me there. Let me be more precise : its not the "natural processes" part that is important, but my point was rather that this type of hybridizing results in the creation of organisms which have not been time tested and w…

> We have no gaurantees of the probabability of a successful organism - could be, as I said, some fucked up abomination which only exists to plead for death.

Although I think this is unlikely, let's accept it as true for the sake of argument.

Eventually I think it's fair to presume we'd come to understand which variations of the process produce your 'abomination' and solve that problem, such that we go on to produce many, many more organisms that don't suffer this same experience.

Would this not be a better outcome than 'not even going there'?

Post reply on HN