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The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

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Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#91

Post by nerdponx »

trentnix wrote: post #47
honkycat wrote: post #35

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

> It's a deep, rich world with complex characters, all with Herculean responsibilities and human weaknesses.*

Planetes was recommended in the recent HN thread about space junk, and I ended up watching the whole series over the course of 4 days. It's similar to Evangelion, in that the first few episodes are goofy and awkward (except they're in their early 20s instead of teens). But by the end of the show I was blown away.

It's effectively an adult coming-of-age story, set against a sad, beautiful near-future world in which everyone is just trying to live their lives and get by. The space debris stuff is fun and maybe metaphorical, but from a plot perpsective it's almost parenthetical. I'm too young and immature to have words for the journey it took me on, but (much like Evangelion) it was exactly what I needed at the time in my life when I first saw it.

Survive through the "ninja" episode (you'll know which one I mean when you see it), and you will be rewarded.

Edit: apparently the anime and manga diverge significantly because the show was finished first. I intend to read the latter after I've had a chance to cool off from the former!

> Attack on Titan got too weird, too quickly

It picks up and starts to tie together. I almost didn't watch the second season, but a friend convinced me to and I don't regret it at all. Apparently the show and manga track closely together in plot, so you don't need to read if you've already watched, or vice versa (unless you want to read the last 20-ish chapters if you don't want to wait for the last season of the show to come out).

Don't expect profundity like Evangelion, although the plot is clearly inspired by Evangelion in some ways. But do expect high drama, long threads of intrigue, and whopper plot twists. It's one of the most exciting TV shows I've ever seen.

> I was too old for Dragonball

Too old to take it seriously, maybe! But it's still good fun, just like Space Ghost and Looney Tunes. If I ever have kids, I plan to watch it with them (although IIRC there were some racist and sexist moments that would best be elided).

> Western-focused, Japanese-animated options

I also have to recommend Avatar: The Last Airbender! Its target audience and Western origin belies its depth.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#92

Post by dumb1224 »

honkycat wrote: post #35

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

Serial Experiments Lain felt very much like a dark dream when I watched it. And because it was so different from the mainstream stereotypical anime which can easily fit into well defined (and IMO overdone) categories.

But I also think it's different from the sort of 'aim at western audience' type of anime (to be frank the appeal is a bit different from asia perspective, at least for me). The dark universes of Akira and Ghost in a Shell have some equivalent in the cyberpunk genre in the west, e.g elements of a dystopian society, which do not feature too often in the Japanese anime world. In that sense Lain really experiments with the genre and rebel against the typical characters and gave it a unique style (hence the name I guess :)

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#93

Post by riskable »

lhorie wrote: post #65
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have any good adult animes come out these past few years? There's always been a lot of gross stuff but I'm starting to lose faith in the medium when I see stuff like Mushoku Tensei being praised as wonderful in the mainstream, the latest few seasons have felt like complete garbage.

I've stopped following anime for several years now. The trajectory of one punch man from it's humble doodle-like beginnings to mainstream speak volumes about the state of commercialization these days IMHO. The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point, just as slice of life got done to death before it. Lately, I've been having more luck w/ manhwa (Korean manga). If steampunk sci-fi with social commentary plot…

> The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point

Yet somehow we can't get enough of it!

I mean, I know I'm a sucker for isekai. Some of it is poorly animated with terrible stereotypes (for anime) and far too much fan service but it's not isekai that's cliche it's the story that's being told inside of it that could be.

I'd argue that isekai is one of the best and truest forms of sci-fi: Instead of just "drama, in space!" or "drama, in the future!" isekais are (normally) answering the question, "what if?"

Like, what if you were reincarnated in another world but you weren't human? What if you were a monster? Or a machine? Or immortal? Overpowered because of nature or overpowered because of nurture (i.e. the ability to carry forward knowledge from this world)? The possibilities are endless!

There's so many great isekai anime that explore these and other questions. Some get quite detailed and realistic (in terms of emotions or the sorts of problems one might run into) while others are more about comedy or relationships (again, "drama, in !").

Some of the more interesting aspects/concepts of isekai anime that I've watched:

    - Main character is not the only one that was brought to another world *but the others who also came are from completely different alternate universes* (Shield Hero).
    - An *entire group of people* get sent to another world (Arifureta, So I'm A Spider, So What?, Grimgar)
    - The other world is *super early* feudal-ish (so primitive they don't know how to make paper or even crochet... yet) and the main character remembers all the arts & crafts stuff her mother and grandmother taught her (Ascendance of a Bookworm).  Hehe: How well do *you* understand the process of making paper (think you could figure it out in that situation? =)
    - What if your mom came to the other world with you? (this one is actually so over the top and ridiculous but the question itself is kind of interesting: Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks?)
Some of those aren't the point of the anime but they're interesting questions/situations nonetheless.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#94

Post by Jtsummers »

perardi wrote: post #83
astrange wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The early 2000’s where characterized primarily by the Big 3 Shonen Jump titles (Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece). This category only exists in the minds of Westerners who were pirating shonen manga at the time. It's not the most popular anime in Japan at any point. It's also funny Bleach made this list since it was frankly terribly written and not as popular as the other two. The author had no control over his story…

Hey, lets introduce a group, the Quincy, that spends quite a lot of the first part of the series proclaiming they proudly use bows and not swords. And then let’s finish the series by having their king, and all his powerful vassals, very blatantly fight only using swords. Very consistent.

First season: We can't fly normally, we need a special device in order to fly. Every season after that: Somehow we're all flying and floating in the air but we won't discuss how.

I found it became much more enjoyable when I decided to "finish" it (after ignoring it for a while) by watching every 5th episode. It was very rare that I missed any story elements because half of each episode was a recap of the recap of the recap from several episodes prior. Stupid completionist tendencies.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#95

Post by dumb1224 »

trentnix wrote: post #47
honkycat wrote: post #35

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

For EVA I had quite an interesting experience. When I watched it I streamed it but was dubbed in cantonese. I can only understand a little but still need to rely on chinese subtitles. The tone of cantonese is of course different from the original Japanese voicing actors. But, surprisingly I was so immersed in its world it felt it was just the language that attach whatever emotions to the characters. The voice of Shinji e.g never felt displaced or making me associate with people from south part of China. They sound genuine and the monologues are so expressive and powerful to make my mind forget it actually is cantonese.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#96

Post by tacotacotaco »

honkycat wrote: post #35

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

> Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format.

Agreed. Check out Final Space. It relies a bit on comedy in the beginning but grows into a drama. Give it a few episodes.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#97

Post by vladTheInhaler »

nerdponx wrote: post #91
trentnix wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

> It's a deep, rich world with complex characters, all with Herculean responsibilities and human weaknesses.* Planetes was recommended in the recent HN thread about space junk, and I ended up watching the whole series over the course of 4 days. It's similar to Evangelion, in that the first few episodes are goofy and awkward (except they're in their early 20s instead of teens). But by the end of the show I was blown a…

Cannot recomment Planetes enough! I'm watching it again with my girlfriend, and after some initial skepticism, she was very much onboard. And we haven't even gotten to the really good stuff yet.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#98

Post by vladTheInhaler »

trentnix wrote: post #47
honkycat wrote: post #35

Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT. Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was not well represented in American media. Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they…

A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex charact…

If you're looking for series that really focus on the "character study" aspect, then I would recommend Welcome to the NHK and Tatami Galaxy. Both series deal a lot with regret, hopelessness, and isolation, which I think are themes that might be especially potent given this past year. NHK in particular is a very intimate look inside the head of a deeply flawed person. Sometimes it's hilarious, other times extremely tragic and moving. I happened to come across it at a point where I was very depressed and struggling to find direction in life, and it affected me deeply. Fair warning - the subtitles in Tatami Galaxy can sometimes be hard to follow because the characters talk so damn fast. The very first scene is especially bad offender, so give it a couple minutes before giving up for that reason.

Re: The terrifyingly prescient ‘Serial Experiments Lain,’ 20 years later (2018)

#99

Post by lhorie »

riskable wrote: post #93
lhorie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped following anime for several years now. The trajectory of one punch man from it's humble doodle-like beginnings to mainstream speak volumes about the state of commercialization these days IMHO. The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point, just as slice of life got done to death before it. Lately, I've been having more luck w/ manhwa (Korean manga). If steampunk sci-fi with social commentary plot…

> The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point Yet somehow we can't get enough of it! I mean, I know I'm a sucker for isekai. Some of it is poorly animated with terrible stereotypes (for anime) and far too much fan service but it's not isekai that's cliche it's the story that's being told inside of it that could be. I'd argue that isekai is one of the best and truest forms of sci-fi: Instead of just "drama,…

I'll admit that I do like the premises of various isekais - kumo desuga nanika (I'm a spider so what) and honzuki no gekokujo (ascendance of a bookworm) that you mentioned are in fact two of my favorites - but it's worth remembering that these are light novel adaptations. Personally I think there's a bit of loss of "magic" directly attributable to bringing the story out of the text-based medium, particularly in the case of honzuki no gekokujo. I thought there was something very special about how Myne was sickly and could not physically go see how Parue was harvested, and how her family's description of the process was as bewildering to her (as an other-worlder) as it would be to any of us. It's a really clever storytelling device that masterfully helps convey the protagonist's situation.

Another example: the orc arc of moonlight sculptor was an absolutely epic read in text format; I don't think the cartoon format can really do it justice.

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