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Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

harpers.org

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Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#91
People are usually attracted to various meditative practices because they want to change the way their brain works. There is a large degree of overlap between traditional meditation and psychotherapies based on mindfulness and CBT.

The efficacy of these therapies is grounded in a strong and growing body of research (this includes research into their risks). Why not dispense with the woo and approach healing the mind like we do the rest of the body?

Here's an overview of the state of mindfulness therapies, I think it's a much more valuable read than Harper's quasi-clickbaity scare piece: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5353527/

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#92

Long term meditation "enthusiast" who has been around many meditation traditions and also done retreats from 3 days to 3 weeks. Meditation is definitely not relaxation. In the language of Yoga (which meditative traditions share), long meditation sessions move the focus (prana) to certains parts of the body where long sustained focus can create "imbalances" and lead to breaks and other side effects (psychosis or relat…

Any idea about how so-called self-hypnosis compares to meditation? In terms of side effects of overdoing it.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#93
post #6

The west (and the east too) has commercialized meditation and yogic practices and reduced them to some pseudo medical amalgam that will solve all your health and mental issues. Per Hindu practices, Meditation is the first, foremost step towards self realization. For attaining liberation and knowing god. It is a tool to calm the mind and prepare it for deeper states of realization (samadhi, nirvikalpa samadhi, etc). I…

> Per Hindu practices, Meditation is the first, foremost step towards self realization.

Isn't it 7th stage or something? In yogic philosophies. Admittedly don't know lot about these stuff.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#94

Long term meditation "enthusiast" who has been around many meditation traditions and also done retreats from 3 days to 3 weeks. Meditation is definitely not relaxation. In the language of Yoga (which meditative traditions share), long meditation sessions move the focus (prana) to certains parts of the body where long sustained focus can create "imbalances" and lead to breaks and other side effects (psychosis or relat…

Would you say these breaks are caused by negative low level physiological states like anxiety, without an obvious root cause to the meditator? Or do they experience something very specific that is outside of their comfort zone which is so unsettling that they are unable to process it? Or both?

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#95
post #75

Reminds me a lot of "the dark night of the soul" as described in "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha" by Daniel Ingram (the book is online at https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/ ). Scott Alexander did a great book review if you want the summary: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/18/book-review-mastering-... This finishes with a Scott-at-his-best quote that is pertinent to the OP: > Why would you want to do any of th…

This comment is nice r/sneerclub material

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#96

Long term meditation "enthusiast" who has been around many meditation traditions and also done retreats from 3 days to 3 weeks. Meditation is definitely not relaxation. In the language of Yoga (which meditative traditions share), long meditation sessions move the focus (prana) to certains parts of the body where long sustained focus can create "imbalances" and lead to breaks and other side effects (psychosis or relat…

Would you say these breaks are caused by negative low level physiological states like anxiety, without an obvious root cause to the meditator? Or do they experience something very specific that is outside of their comfort zone which is so unsettling that they are unable to process it? Or both?

Zen practitioner and trainer here.

Proper meditation is a very powerful journey inside and has the power to uncover a lot of trauma or bad experiences masked or buried by other coping mechanisms. It can be said that purification is the process of uncovering these traumas and/or problems and solving them definitively, removing all secondary effects in the process, hence making person more free.

As OP said, the mechanisms are overly complex and extremely powerful. It's both not understood by modern science and very underrated by "woo woo" people.

Coming to your point, these breaks are caused by being faced with these traumas unprepared or without someone to support you. If you're advanced enough, you can face them yourself and solve them. If you're not and somehow face them, a more experienced practitioner can help you to collect yourself and face them at a later time. These experiences push you to the boundaries or out of your comfort zone, for sure.

In these cases, anxiety and other emotions are tip of the iceberg. If you're anxious about meditation, you wouldn't be able to focus properly.

In Zen, the practitioner wouldn't search for a root cause since it's not obvious. So, you don't try to process what's happening real time. These root cause reveals itself later. Either by noticing real-life changes or enlightenment (completion of background processing).

Hope that helps. If you have further questions, I'll try to answer.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#97

Long term meditation "enthusiast" who has been around many meditation traditions and also done retreats from 3 days to 3 weeks. Meditation is definitely not relaxation. In the language of Yoga (which meditative traditions share), long meditation sessions move the focus (prana) to certains parts of the body where long sustained focus can create "imbalances" and lead to breaks and other side effects (psychosis or relat…

Any idea about how so-called self-hypnosis compares to meditation? In terms of side effects of overdoing it.

Some of the methods try to modify the behavior or emotion without solving or removing the root cause. This practically buries them deeper and adds an emotional deflection layer preventing person him/herself or other people approaching it.

This causes the emotion to ferment underneath that layer, and since it's prevented from venting itself, the person sometimes emotionally deforms more and everything becomes harder to solve.

Part because person is blind to what's happening and has a very powerful defensive layer which prevents everyone (including psychiatrists) reaching from problematic emotions and trying to heal them.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#98
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So having a timer of say 10-15 minutes and meditating would be preferred over apps like Headspace, Calm, etc even though they have guided meditation? Isn't that risky? I don't have any medical conditions but reading this article has made me somewhat wary.

I recommend you check out Sam Harris’ “Waking Up” app. It contains a very gentle guided introduction to mediation, and has a ton of audio content which discusses meditation in its many forms and adjacent topics. If you are wary then listening to the introductory stuff should make you more informed.

I second this. "Waking up" is less of a meditation app, and more of a collection of tools to help you explore consciousness. In addition to the meditation content, the tools include interviews, walks through stoicism and even poetry.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say these breaks are caused by negative low level physiological states like anxiety, without an obvious root cause to the meditator? Or do they experience something very specific that is outside of their comfort zone which is so unsettling that they are unable to process it? Or both?

Zen practitioner and trainer here. Proper meditation is a very powerful journey inside and has the power to uncover a lot of trauma or bad experiences masked or buried by other coping mechanisms. It can be said that purification is the process of uncovering these traumas and/or problems and solving them definitively, removing all secondary effects in the process, hence making person more free. As OP said, the mechani…

Perhaps I'm not being direct enough. In the past, through various practices and substances I experienced what felt like a complete erasure of all rules - if something could be thought, it could be made real. This spun out of control and felt extremely dangerous to me, and scared me to the point of emotional paralysis and near psychosis for months. It was not past trauma that frightened me but a complete unveiling of what seemed like infinite possibilty that my weak mind was not ready for. I hear a lot about waking up trauma and past experiences and what not and I feel I could handle these sorts of awakenings - I'm more curious about meditation opening doors to new realities that I may not be prepared for, unveiling of normally hidden layers our world, tests of death and dissolution, etc. Maybe this is the "woo" side you and the OP are talking about.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#100
post #84

That some people have negative reactions – including anxiety, hallucinations, & seizures – to intense meditation has been under-reported, but long known. Here's a story from almost 19 years ago in the SFWeekly: "Bad Vibes- Warning: Meditating may be hazardous to your health" SFWeekly, 2002-08-28 https://web.archive.org/web/20091114023754/https://www.sfwee...

Yes, for decades it was called kundalini syndrome or psychosis, but is probably best described today as meditation-induced psychosis.
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