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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#91

Post by kevingadd »

tfehring wrote: post #33
jonwinstanley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

Or Fortnite, for that matter? Why should I be forced to buy skins with Epic’s in-game currency instead of loading my own?

The content creator selects which currencies they are willing to sell their product for. This shouldn't be difficult to understand. Do I have the right to demand that my local furniture store accept Bitcoin?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#92

Post by frosted-flakes »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27
jonwinstanley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? How do you define a platform?

> What about platforms like Playstation or the computers built into Teslas etc, should we allow sideloading on those? I think we should, yes. Not necessarily by default, but there should be a switch advanced users can flip. Re: Tesla, there is in fact a long history of people fixing and modifying their cars. Why not the computers in those cars?

There's a long history of people loading custom firmware ("tunes") on vehicle ECUs to modify how the engine runs. Tesla's ECU shouldn't be any different.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#93

Post by klmadfejno »

dleslie wrote: post #32

I'm not excited by the proposition of either party coming out on top. I hope the EU sees the forest for the trees and understands that the situation is a lot more complicated than either party would claim. Apple is acting as a leader in reducing the footprint of general computing hardware; albeit their devices have among the longest service lives, they continue to be further restricted in their operation over time. T…

I hate fortnite for what it is. I love unreal engine for what it is. Regardless of my stake in Apple/Epic is, I think this needs to be addressed. The economics of platforms as a monopsony are damaging. We see it in other areas too. Uber Eats and what is effectively extortion of small business restaurants. It's like the definition of economic rent, and it's a mess of bad incentives.

I would strongly support a system that forced operators to either run at cost or to charge any price but allow sideloading.

A maximum profit margin on services like could also be viable.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#94

Post by dd36 »

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

Why does there need to be multiple app stores? That sounds terrible. Apple just needs to stop demanding huge chunks from app revenue.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#95

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

parthdesai wrote: post #47
tfehring wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Fortnite, for that matter? Why should I be forced to buy skins with Epic’s in-game currency instead of loading my own?

Fortnite is a free game, I pay to own my iPhone.

Then if you care so much about running whatever software you want on it, perhaps you should have bought a phone that lets you do that instead?

I'm not personally in favor of walled gardens myself, but everyone who bought an iPhone knew that's what they were getting and did it anyway.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#96

Post by adamdusty »

dpkonofa wrote: post #81
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #13

> Apple said its rules applied equally to all developers and that Epic had violated them. All developers except Amazon, they mean. Now that it has happened, I'm actually surprised it took Epic this long to file suit in the EU. Given Europe's stronger antitrust enforcement and general skepticism of tech giants, Epic likely has a stronger case there than in the US. If I were Epic, I'd have wanted to have both lawsuits…

What do you mean by that? The rules apply to Amazon just the same as to anyone else.

Do they? All in app purchases have to be made through Apple's payment system. If you can buy amazon prime through the app then Apple should be taking a 30% cut. They might already do that, I have no idea, but it seems unlikely Amazon would agree to it.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#97

Post by alexashka »

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> It feels a bit hypocritical when...

You are treating corporate entities as if they are people with emotions.

This is a mistake.

They are not people. They are legal entities, created to enable their owners and beneficiaries to have special rights regular citizens do not have, such as killing people and never going to prison (Boeing).

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#98

Post by nickysielicki »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #71
dleslie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. On the other hand, Apple is acting as a platform owner and demanding that they continue to act as the sole store curator on their platform. I do not see the hypocrisy.

How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. >On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. This sounds like marketing. Apple is limiting what apps their customers have access to. I wonder if you would make the same argument if Apple starts blocking websites?

It’s not about the outcome, it’s about reasoning from first principles and going where ever that leads you, regardless of how much you dislike the outcome. Nobody has to buy an iPhone, iPad, or MacBook. Apple has the right to create the software ecosystem they want to create. Their success in mobile computing is arguably a direct result of their closed ecosystem.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#99

Post by marticode »

gwd wrote: post #18
ehvatum wrote: post #4

There is room for 3rd party app stores. Epic will argue that Apple does an absolutely ghastly terrible job of curating the Apple app store, as Apple really has little incentive not to suck completely. The EU court will agree. Apple will spend a year or two saying “it can’t be done”, then issue a signing certificate to Epic.

> There is room for 3rd party app stores. The "Apple Tax" pays for the maintenance of the Apple ecosystem. Epic wants access to this amazing ecosystem, but resents having to help pay to support it. Either "third party" app stores will also pay to support this ecosystem, in which case Epic will be paying the same amount either way; or they'll fail to support the ecosystem, in which case Apple will be forced to turn to…

> The "Apple Tax" pays for the maintenance of the Apple ecosystem.

No - the ~50% margin Apple makes on the phone pays for the ecosystem. Apple could charge nothing for inclusion in the app store and still be by far the most profitable electronic device maker on the planet.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#100

Post by IntelMiner »

mywittyname wrote: post #45
mikepurvis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I wouldn't be at all surprised if Microsoft is gearing up for this fight with Sony, given that every Xbox Series does in fact allow sideloading once placed into the included-and-supported developer mode.

MS is ahead of the curve here. Rather than trying to combat homebrew, they are embracing it within some predefined boundaries. The 360 allowed for homebrew as well. I think they learned a lot from XBMC.

What? The 360 never had any homebrew enabled
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