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I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

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Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#91
post #68
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security is an illusion and like kerning, you can both inform and break people by bringing their attention to the 'solutions' to that problem. There are other ways to look at the world. In some ways they can be both more and less stressful than contemporary western ideology.

Curious, can you elaborate?

I'm not the best messenger, but nothing is certain, and in some cases fighting against it makes you more susceptible to crushing disappointment.

If you want to go all the way to Eastern Philosophy, you can, but even without going into that, there comes a point where contingency planning is more fruitful than doubling down on trying to force a thing to happen no matter what.

Memento mori (remember you will die) as the Stoics say.

Certainty is an illusion, one that romantic partners and anxious bosses in particular don't want to hear about. Great insight for a smoke jumper, not so good for valentine's day or SLA violations.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#92
post #85
post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Making a big mistake as a manager can cost the company a lot more than a big mistake as an individual Engineer, Architect or Developer, especially if you consider that the latter roles will catch many of each others' mistakes. The manager level can result in entire teams quitting, failing to support each other or an atmosphere where catching each others' mistakes is discouraged. Some jobs are paid based (roughly) on…

Why does potential for costly mistakes result in greater perceived value and higher pay?

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#93
If she didn't get a pay downgrade to associate swe then she is not even remotely close to starting from scratch. The company is basically letting her learn a new field on their dime, which is fine, but this is basically a story less about her earning her skills as a software engineer and more about the charity of her Boss and the company allowing her to learn these skills.

This is not an economic move for the company. They are better off hiring a new CS grad, and if her pay wasn't reduced they are better off with a senior engineer. An action like this is literally an act of charity. People go through a lot to learn dev skills and she is being handed these skills as a gift.

What I'm going to say next might come off as a bit sexist and keep in mind it's just representative of my own anecdotal experiences and others may have completely different experiences.

I have found that when a female developer isn't doing so well on her job she's given a lot more leeway then a male developer. Additionally a lot more people (men) will go out of their way to help her because of her sex. Part of the fact she was even offered a role as a developer very likely has to do with some aspect of this.

Frankly, I can't see this same situation happening as often for a dude. Men are subconsciously judged more for their competency while women (especially attractive women) trigger good Samaritan vibes, making competency take a back seat while people do everything they can to foster a community of help and assistance.

Nothing wrong with taking advantage of it, but if I was a janitor in an engineering company and I asked the director for a starring role as a SWE they'd look at me funny. But if I was a really hot female... I can see the possibility of a director trying to establish himself into a mentor-ship role.

I'm not implying men do this consciously. I think most men and people in general like to think of themselves as non-biased so most of this happens as subconscious actions.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#94
post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Because, as a manager, you're responsible for the mistakes your people make, not them.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#95
My story has some similarities to Kristina's, but I didn't I get to choose when I switched. I went from being a "Flash" designer/developer, which I loved, to being unemployed and drowning in debt, to physically moving to another city, to going to a bootcamp. Fortunately I am stable now.

The hard part is how 15 years of prior experience is mostly wiped out. It makes for a colorful background, but largely ignored. Recruiters called it "soft skills" when you have corporate experience, but it's not directly applicable to software development.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#97
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably due to the very poor and misleading article title, which frames the situation as a "demotion", something that happens to us, not something that we decide to do. The article has a good message, but the title is absolute click-bait. Many people might come across the title, and although not interested in reading it, walk away with the idea that following dreams leads to negative consequences. I hope the author…

Yeah, the title of the article is pretty poor. It kind of sounds like someone who was promoted from a developer to something else, rose to the level of their incompetence, then reversed the promotion to go back to doing what they enjoyed. This person was not a developer previously, so I don't understand how they were "demoted." Other than management > individual contributor. What really happened was they changed jobs…

They were director of design! I am not part of that company so it’s possible that director is a joke there but in most companies that’s the highest level prior to the c suite/owners (public company/professional services firms). That would mean she likely had immense autonomy and a large group of direct reports whom themselves had teams of direct reports. Going from that to “just a coder” ie one team member of one team responsible for only their contributions to their current projects.

In nearly every organization that would be a huge demotion WITH a huge pay cut. In this instance because coders are paid so much more than most other professions it’s possible it was a lateral move or even a pay raise! But no question as far as responsibility for the direction of the organization it’s a huge demotion.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#98

If she didn't get a pay downgrade to associate swe then she is not even remotely close to starting from scratch. The company is basically letting her learn a new field on their dime, which is fine, but this is basically a story less about her earning her skills as a software engineer and more about the charity of her Boss and the company allowing her to learn these skills. This is not an economic move for the company…

I find these anecdotes to be completely untrue. Women are often assumed to be less competent, and are often passed over during hiring for men of equal competence.

I've seen some incredibly useless dudes sit back and rest and vest for months and months without any repercussions. I don't have an equivalent story for women because I work with significantly less women. Let's try focusing on the apparent and obvious biases against women before we start keeping score on how men are so disenfranchised.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#99
post #56
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it makes you insecure? It's about someone who changed jobs because they decided they'd prefer to do something else. It isn't one of those "in six weeks I turned my side gig into a Nobel-prize winning web site and now I'm a billionaire" clickbait articles.

Probably due to the very poor and misleading article title, which frames the situation as a "demotion", something that happens to us, not something that we decide to do. The article has a good message, but the title is absolute click-bait. Many people might come across the title, and although not interested in reading it, walk away with the idea that following dreams leads to negative consequences. I hope the author…

Director to junior engineer is absolutely a demotion (albeit a voluntary one), and might even come with a paycut.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#100
post #56
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it makes you insecure? It's about someone who changed jobs because they decided they'd prefer to do something else. It isn't one of those "in six weeks I turned my side gig into a Nobel-prize winning web site and now I'm a billionaire" clickbait articles.

Probably due to the very poor and misleading article title, which frames the situation as a "demotion", something that happens to us, not something that we decide to do. The article has a good message, but the title is absolute click-bait. Many people might come across the title, and although not interested in reading it, walk away with the idea that following dreams leads to negative consequences. I hope the author…

She was a director (manager of managers), so going from that to an IC developer is absolutely a demotion by any definition of the word.
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