Live data from Hacker News

The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

nature.com

91–100 of 495 posts

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#91

Does it mean people are socialized into being gay ?

Not entirely. The idea of a gay/straight binary, though, is pretty outmoded.

Some people probably do have agency over their sexuality, or respond to incentives other than gender/sex. And part of that’s probably social.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#92

Kind of hopeful we can stop using genetics as a way of justifying queer peoples' existence. Whether it's conditioning, a choice, or genetics, shouldn't really be a factor in how you treat queer people.

could still be a mix of genes. agree with your last sentence.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#93
Is there any trait that is strongly linked to a single gene?

Whenever I hear a news article that there is no X gene, I am completely unsurprised. The idea that a single gene would uniquely determine a particular trait, as if it were a variable in a program like "bool has_blue_eyes", seems oversimplified and unrealistic.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#94
People latched onto the idea that sexuality is genetically determined because it seemed like the only viable way to defend themselves against rampant religious bigotry and oppression. It was a rope dangling into the well you were trapped in, and the well was filling with acid, but if you could just manage to climb that rope then you'd make it out. The reasoning went something like "if I can prove that sexuality is genetically predetermined then it means that I didn't choose to be this way". As if genetic predestination were the only possible reason to grant protection to a class. Some people fairly quickly saw the problem with this defense and expanded it to include other uncontrollable elements of childhood development, again leaning on the "if I didn't have a choice _then_ it has to be ok". As if choices were still somehow the problem.

But that's always been a fucked up idea. It shouldn't matter whether it was predetermined or otherwise not in your control. If it's constructed then it's constructed. If it's not then it's not. People shouldn't be oppressed for their sexuality full stop, regardless of reason.

I think the idea of genetic predestination might have been a short-term useful crutch in the past but I hope that we've begun to progress beyond needing people to explain themselves.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#96
post #12
post #2

Not an expert here but, IF a gay gene existed, wouldn't have it been evolved into extinction?

A common analogy here is that in lots of insects, you see whole groups of non-reproductive members, and yet the idea of a "non-reproductive worker insect" hasn't "evolved into extinction." (I'm not commenting on whether being gay has a genetic basis or whether it's an example of kin selection, because honestly, I have no idea.)

The point is that non-reproductive insects don't have specific set of genes that make them non-reproductive - it is not an inheritable trait. If it was, then it would have evolved into extinction.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#97

"Ganna and his colleagues also used the analysis to estimate that up to 25% of sexual behaviour can be explained by genetics, with the rest influenced by environmental and cultural factors — a figure similar to the findings of smaller studies." An argument for gay rights has been that people are "born that way". That appears to be false. Does this suggest that it may be possible to shape the environment to reduce the…

> An argument for gay rights has been that people are "born that way". That appears to be false Only if you take the strict literal definition of the phrase "born that way" to mean your genetic make-up. A person has little to no control over their environmental factors during their upbringing. Everything from average air temperature, food nutrient makeup, airborne particles, etc are environmental factors that we know…

"Your comment is making the assumption that the environmental factor that causes homosexuality is witnessing other members of the species be homosexual, which is a large leap of logic to make."

I think research has found that people are more likely to engage in a behavior if they see others doing the same. For example, someone who would not ordinarily shoplift may do so during a riot where many people are looting stores. A 2019 survey found that "U.S. adults estimate that 23.6% of Americans are gay or lesbian", while Gallup estimates the fraction to be 4.5%. Link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overes... . I think this overestimation may influence some behavior at the margin.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#99
post #53

It's unlikely there's a gene that codes for being gay. Homosexuality instead is better thought of as more like why men have nipples. Obviously the nipples are not useful to the reproductive success of men, but genetics and natural selection are messy and there's likely no easy path to not having them in men while maintaining their function in women. For homosexuality, the systems of sexual attraction in the brain nee…

Kin-selection hypothesis also allow for some fraction of asexual or homosexual population being a positive overall (from an evolutionary perspective).

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#100

I'm curious if they instead focused on a simple neural net that is fed genes + gay/straight flag if the NN would actually successfully predict it.... in other words, NN's don't care about "finding" that specific gene, they kinda include everything and it "finds" the gene without actually pointing it out. That's very different from the human approach which is to try to find something specific. I mean compare it to blo…

For complex traits, I believe people think that linear effects dominate. Which is another way of saying that they see no advantage to adding a hidden layer, which encodes interactions, compared to adding up individual effects.

The caveat here "for complex traits" means things like height, for which we know there are hundreds to thousands of common variants which matter. Some things aren't like that, e.g. simple recessive gene effects are interactions! And, with more data, this may change.

Post reply on HN