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Autism and Invention Are Connected

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Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#91

Post by PlugTunin »

novok wrote: post #32
PlugTunin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The author of that article, Baron-Cohen, has previously written (debated?) about whether HFA/AS is a disability OR a difference. Speaking for myself, and many who identify as having Asperger's -- and your son, from what it sounds like (who sounds really cool!) -- it is indeed a difference , and by no means a disability.

Low end ASD can make dating really hard for men, and their often inflexible nature makes them hard people to live with at times. I think from that perspective alone it's a disability.

I respect and agree with what you are saying. Even on the "higher-end", my relationships with the opposite sex were often unorthodox, shallow, or outright dysfunctional. And most of them were before my diagnosis.

I'm probably guilty of not viewing this as disabling because I'm treating the term too concretely, as if a disability has to be something "physical" that might require special accommodations. But yeah, I suppose my challenges in understanding the game of love are disabling.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#93

Post by bryanmgreen »

PlugTunin wrote: post #86
PlugTunin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The author of that article, Baron-Cohen, has previously written (debated?) about whether HFA/AS is a disability OR a difference. Speaking for myself, and many who identify as having Asperger's -- and your son, from what it sounds like (who sounds really cool!) -- it is indeed a difference , and by no means a disability.

I should be clear in stating that my life hasn't been a bowl of cherries. Asperger's is at the core of a looooong list of problems I've had with interpersonal relationships, whether it's family, friends, co-workers, roommates, etc. I'm sort of intolerant of being treated unjustly or being taken advantage of, and I react rather nastily to those who cross me. (And before you judge me, know that people with Asperger's h…

Disabled against the context of "normality".

You can function obviously, but not as society expects you to or even in way they can understand. For that reason, you receive the label of "has a disability".

The term "disability" is unfortunately as much a reflection of societal norms as it is genuine medical diagnosis.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#94

Post by vizzier »

BurningFrog wrote: post #89
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if the supposed Theory of Mind impairments only apply when Autistic people theorize about Neurotypical minds, which are different from their own. My guess is that when theorizing about another Autistic person mind, which is similar to their own, they might actually do quite well because they have their own mind to use as a base to work from, just like Neurotypical people have their own mind to use as a ba…

A lot of the programmers I think are "on the spectrum" seem to have a real blind spot for the possibility that other people lack the knowledge they have. If they know something, they just assume I do too.

I'm not sure that this is exclusive to those on the spectrum. It is common enough to have a name; The curse of knowledge [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#95

Post by PlugTunin »

BurningFrog wrote: post #89
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if the supposed Theory of Mind impairments only apply when Autistic people theorize about Neurotypical minds, which are different from their own. My guess is that when theorizing about another Autistic person mind, which is similar to their own, they might actually do quite well because they have their own mind to use as a base to work from, just like Neurotypical people have their own mind to use as a ba…

A lot of the programmers I think are "on the spectrum" seem to have a real blind spot for the possibility that other people lack the knowledge they have. If they know something, they just assume I do too.

The curse of knowledge (or expertise) is interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge

Edit: Sorry for the dupe. Vizzier posted this a minute or three before I did.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#96

Post by cirno »

PlugTunin wrote: post #21

Interesting read. Minor point of clarification: It's noted that many autistic folks struggle with empathy. There are two dimensions to empathy, cognitive and affective . Cognitive is more about perspective taking, or reading the feelings / intentions of others, while affective is the ability to share/understand the emotions of others, and respond appropriately. Putting aside that the two may overlap, it's often the c…

> it's often the cognitive aspect that challenges the autistic

Yes, that perfectly matches my experiences.

I have far too much affective empathy, but struggle with cognitive empathy and often unintentionally make enemies because I am too clumsy with my words and social interactions, and can't properly gauge social roles (such as when a person looks up to me and would be hurt to hear any criticism from me.)

It stings me when people repeat that I have no empathy at all, and I wish this was better understood by others. Thank you for pointing it out so eloquently.

(Only speaking for myself here, not others! All of us are very different.)

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#97

Post by cirno »

BurningFrog wrote: post #89
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if the supposed Theory of Mind impairments only apply when Autistic people theorize about Neurotypical minds, which are different from their own. My guess is that when theorizing about another Autistic person mind, which is similar to their own, they might actually do quite well because they have their own mind to use as a base to work from, just like Neurotypical people have their own mind to use as a ba…

A lot of the programmers I think are "on the spectrum" seem to have a real blind spot for the possibility that other people lack the knowledge they have. If they know something, they just assume I do too.

I know when I started out what I struggled with and how difficult it was to learn things. But after having learned them, I have a lot of trouble explaining how I got there. I can't remember why it was hard anymore, as it just seems easy to me now. This is a large part of why I don't enjoy writing documentation or teaching others. Point being, I know about this problem in me, it's not a blind spot, there's just not a lot I can do about it.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#98

Post by [deleted] »

lumberjack wrote: post #33
ksm1717 wrote: post #14

The first sentence rubs me the wrong way. The claim that you wouldn’t expect autism to be coupled with invention because it is a disability only makes sense because of the semantics of labeling autism necessarily a disability. Not to mention the slight to disabilities as a whole

Most (like 90% or more) autistic people are low functioning. But they are completely invisible to people like you. When you hear the word you think of the border line cases that fall under the label "high functioning autism". But the author is not limiting himself to just these borderline cases.

[deleted]

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#99

Post by sjg007 »

vizzier wrote: post #94
BurningFrog wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the programmers I think are "on the spectrum" seem to have a real blind spot for the possibility that other people lack the knowledge they have. If they know something, they just assume I do too.

I'm not sure that this is exclusive to those on the spectrum. It is common enough to have a name; The curse of knowledge [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge

Well this explains why 70million voted for the other guy!

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#100

Post by grugagag »

godelski wrote: post #53
cbozeman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mental disabilities are mostly adaptations that have huge upside. There is extremely scant evidence to support this claim, and conversely, an enormous amount of evidence to disprove it. The first part is questionable in its very premise. Mental disabilities as an adaptation? By what metric do you measure this? And having huge upsides? There aren't many upsides to someone being born severely mentally retarded. There…

I think a big problem of this is that we don't actually represent these people and the way we talk about mental illnesses and disabilities is just strange. Like a lot of people were confused by Robin Williams and Chris Farley, but I don't think anyone that's ever suffered from depression was surprised at all. We think of depression as sadness instead of the existential emptiness or mundane that many experience. Autis…

This is on the one hand a good point but on the other it is a good example of exactly what you’re pointing out. Your implicit dismissal of the idea that there is a spectrum invalidates the ones with the milder form, the highly functionals who feel extremely liberated when a diagnosys is made and why they want to share it that with the world.
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