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About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

ish.app

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Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#91

Post by robocat »

To me it appears they admit that iSH allows scripting (ummm, obviously), and that scripting is against Apple’s policy (as we all know). From one of their articles: “Soon after we released iSH without apk, we found users who had figured out a way to get apk back using wget and were posting about this throughout the internet”.

They argue that Apple’s policy should be changed to allow scripting: https://saagarjha.com/blog/2020/11/08/fixing-section-2-5-2/

It looks to me that Apple’s main reason for not allowing scripting is to prevent an app from deploying other apps within itself (preventing any competition with the app store), with a secondary reason being security for users (harder to argue against).

I can’t see Apple ever allowing a shell app into the store, as that would turn your iDevice into a general purpose computer.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#92

Post by heavyset_go »

mortenjorck wrote: post #28

This isn’t sustainable. Software developers can’t build on a foundation that is constantly, capriciously shifting. This on top of the App Store's already-onerous restrictions and the fact that it’s the only practical way to get your software on one of the world's largest computing platforms has already engendered a deep antipathy [1] among Apple developers, and there are no signs it’s getting better. Something has to…

> Software developers can’t build on a foundation that is constantly, capriciously shifting.

This is the conclusion that I came to, as well, as a developer of several open source utilities for Macs.

Apple has fostered an ecosystem that is hostile to developers, but infinitely beneficial and profitable for Apple.

It isn't worth the time investment when the rug can be pulled out from under me if Apple figures that they might benefit even slightly from doing so.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#93

Post by williamscales »

mullingitover wrote: post #87

> Advanced users are welcome to build iSH themselves—it’s free and open source and always will be! I mean, the app store fiasco sucks, but at the same time if you're advanced enough to want a command line on an iDevice you're probably advanced enough to do 'git clone', hit the build button in XCode, and do a local install. It's grade school level of difficulty. Ideally they'd offer a release that you can build and in…

I’m actually not sure about that, as far as I can tell there’s no way for me to build the app without having access to another Apple machine running the full MacOS. I just have an iPad and a Linux desktop, which generally suits me fine.

So, the App Store fiasco sucks, and doubly so for those who are not already entirely inside Apple’s walled garden.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#94

Post by csydas »

papaf wrote: post #82
threeseed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS developers have made over a half a trillion dollars over the last decade on this unsustainable, constantly shifting foundation that they hate so much. Makes you wonder why they bother ? Maybe it's because the very rules you say developers hate are the ones users find appealing.

iOS developers have made over a half a trillion dollars over the last decade on this unsustainable, constantly shifting foundation that they hate so much. I don't know why you think that this comment is relevant given that iSH is free.

You're focusing on the wrong part. The contention from iSH and many other posters in the thread is about AppStore rules being inconsistent which in turn makes it unsustainable as per the GP.

The comment is that it's clearly sustainable and stable enough to allow persons to make a significant profit from it even which shouldn't be possible without some stability and predictability to the platform.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#95

Post by stefan_ »

dylan604 wrote: post #35

"we received a call from Apple" is this a literal statement where some human from Apple called on the telephone to speak to someone about this situation, or is this a phrase that actually means they received an email notification about the situation? I ask because it seems well outside the norm of no-human contact regarding support from FAANG companies.

They call so you are not prepared and there isn't a ready record. It's probably in the antitrust trainings..

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#96

Post by admax88q »

raverbashing wrote: post #24
kmeisthax wrote: post #13

Apple: the iPad Pro is a computer Also Apple: how dare you make a sandboxed shell environment for it

"what's a computer" And I might add. Until you are able to develop an iPad app in itself, it is not replacing "a real one"

> "what's a computer"

Also Apple: "There's an app for that"

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#97

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

iaxiomi wrote: post #81

If I was iSH developer and I wanted to fuck with Apple I would make iSH run in WASM and browser. Good luck banning that desktop shortcut.

Actually, that's an interesting question: does https://bellard.org/jslinux/ work in iOS's browser?

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#98

Post by [deleted] »

threeseed wrote: post #44
mortenjorck wrote: post #28

This isn’t sustainable. Software developers can’t build on a foundation that is constantly, capriciously shifting. This on top of the App Store's already-onerous restrictions and the fact that it’s the only practical way to get your software on one of the world's largest computing platforms has already engendered a deep antipathy [1] among Apple developers, and there are no signs it’s getting better. Something has to…

iOS developers have made over a half a trillion dollars over the last decade on this unsustainable, constantly shifting foundation that they hate so much. Makes you wonder why they bother ? Maybe it's because the very rules you say developers hate are the ones users find appealing.

[deleted]

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#99

Post by II2II »

jeremy_wiebe wrote: post #64
RHSeeger wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is disingenuous, at best. Apple takes a large percentage on purchases through the phone, so Amazon doesn't allow the purchase through it. It's not an arbitrary decision on their end.

My understanding is that Amazon also takes their chunk of flesh from book publishers/authors. Honest question then: how is that different? You can publish a book but if you aren’t on Amazon you drastically limit your exposure to potential readers.

You do run into a bit of a problem though: Amazon wants their cut, Apple wants their cut, the credit card company wants their cut, the publisher wants their cut, and there are likely others in the chain as well. That's not to say that each party doesn't deserve payment for their services, but there does have to be some limitations on how much they can take.

Re: About iSH’s pending removal from the App Store

#100

Post by kevingadd »

dylan604 wrote: post #30
Osiris wrote: post #27

> Consistent enforcement of Apple’s incorrect interpretation would require the removal of all scripting apps, including many of the most popular applications in the App Store and some of Apple’s own applications. The problem with "consistent enforcement" is 1) the guidelines are purposefully vague 2) there are reports of unwritten internal rules that are different from the public rules 3) I suspect that the amount of…

> 3) I suspect that the amount of revenue that a company brings through their app also affects how rules are applied It didn't affect Epic. Break the rules, get the boot.

Worked for Amazon and Netflix.
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