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We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

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Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#91

Post by woeirua »

ProjectBarks wrote: post #85
woeirua wrote: post #83

It's neat, and a good application of the technology, but honestly I don't see this taking off because the gap between the tech and execution is closing quickly. Comma was really far ahead of everyone 5 years ago. But... we have gone from a situation where the Level 2 systems available in most new cars went from an impractical gimmick, to very useful and comparable to this in just a few years. New Toyota's (MY 2020) a…

I'm glad you are happy with your new Toyota but I think you are giving too much confidence in it's ability. Look at this evaluation between OpenPilot and Toyota TSS 2.0 https://youtu.be/z5-inxH92wM Also free to checkout navigating SF with OpenPilot https://youtu.be/0TpMMoQ7GGg (30 min). I highly doubt you would find similar results with a Toyota TSS 2.0 system. Nevertheless, I will let the contents of the videos spea…

I have a Subaru with Eyesight, not a Toyota. But my point was more so that one of the most popular car manufacturers is giving away a system that is probably 70% as good as OpenPilot.

Those videos didn't really change my mind. I'm not convinced at all that it's really that much better on the highway. It's definitely better for non-highway driving, but it also had a few disengagements that he had to intervene for.

Look, if it was $1000 for Level 5 autonomy I would be the first in line to purchase it. But it's clearly not anywhere close to that yet.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#92

Post by shiftpgdn »

ezconnect wrote: post #69
saddlerustle wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenPilot doesn't "trick" the steering system using "false sensor data". The steering controller just accepts messages for commanding steering over CAN bus. The same messages are used by the stock ADAS system. Also, this bus is not usually exposed to the OBD port, so OpenPilot just connects to the same port the stock ADAS ECU uses.

OpenPilot pretends it's the ADAS and some cars you can pass the torque sensor on the custom serial bus used by the cars. There's not much difference in tricking or pretending or overwhelming the serial bus with another data message to make the steering system respond to OpenPilot.

If I recall correctly no car with standard harness openpilot support use an intercept configuration, only community supported cars.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#93

Post by woeirua »

p1esk wrote: post #89
woeirua wrote: post #83

It's neat, and a good application of the technology, but honestly I don't see this taking off because the gap between the tech and execution is closing quickly. Comma was really far ahead of everyone 5 years ago. But... we have gone from a situation where the Level 2 systems available in most new cars went from an impractical gimmick, to very useful and comparable to this in just a few years. New Toyota's (MY 2020) a…

I did buy a new car a few months ago, and the best possible driver assist features were a priority for me. I bought Chrysler Pacifica minivan with their "advanced" driver assist package. It's just an adaptive cruise control plus warnings when I drift off out of a clearly marked lane. It does not offer a lane keeping ability. That's a $50k 2020 model with all premium features added. I haven't tried Comma, but from wha…

This is a legitimate criticism. I can't for the life of me, figure out why manufacturers are still artificially segmenting their products with software. Some cars have had fairly capable lane tracing since the 2019 MY, and others still don't for the 2021 MY.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#94

Post by shiftpgdn »

woeirua wrote: post #91
ProjectBarks wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you are happy with your new Toyota but I think you are giving too much confidence in it's ability. Look at this evaluation between OpenPilot and Toyota TSS 2.0 https://youtu.be/z5-inxH92wM Also free to checkout navigating SF with OpenPilot https://youtu.be/0TpMMoQ7GGg (30 min). I highly doubt you would find similar results with a Toyota TSS 2.0 system. Nevertheless, I will let the contents of the videos spea…

I have a Subaru with Eyesight, not a Toyota. But my point was more so that one of the most popular car manufacturers is giving away a system that is probably 70% as good as OpenPilot. Those videos didn't really change my mind. I'm not convinced at all that it's really that much better on the highway. It's definitely better for non-highway driving, but it also had a few disengagements that he had to intervene for. Loo…

I have a 2019 Subaru with Eyesight. The system isn't half as good as you think it is. The comma system is seriously so far ahead in regards to LKAS (lane centering, cornering, etc) than Subaru's eyesight system.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#95

Post by Cactus2018 »

retSava wrote: post #11
raziel2p wrote: post #3

The most surprising part about this to me is that there seems to be a somewhat standardized computer interface for controlling cars with an external device. I would never have guessed that, I thought for sure every maker would come up with their own unique design and require you to buy adapters or whatnot.

It's mandated by regulation in all cars after..2002? It's a port most often situated close to the steering wheel, the interface is a bog standard CAN bus. Where it differs between cars is what command sets are used and allowed (eg sometimes proprietary ones are used, and controlling things may not be possible). It's common to extract diagnostics about the car from this port. For example, when buying a used car this i…

> It's mandated by regulation in all cars after..2002?

I don't think the port is the surprising part, it's the ability to articulate brakes and steering wheel!

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#96

Post by woeirua »

mellosouls wrote: post #87
woeirua wrote: post #83

It's neat, and a good application of the technology, but honestly I don't see this taking off because the gap between the tech and execution is closing quickly. Comma was really far ahead of everyone 5 years ago. But... we have gone from a situation where the Level 2 systems available in most new cars went from an impractical gimmick, to very useful and comparable to this in just a few years. New Toyota's (MY 2020) a…

It's really hard to see why you would buy this system for $1100 if you can just buy a new car and get this all for free A key phrase here is "just buy a new car". You might be able to afford that but most can't. I don't know what Comma AI's market strategy is but I would imagine there is a huge potential aftermarket for gizmos like this in capable older motors, with that growing as time moves on and the enabling tech…

I'm not sure about that. You have to have a relatively recent vehicle for this to work, because steer-by-wire only became common place in the last few years as manufacturers started adding ADAS systems. This wont work on any car with hydraulic steering, which rules out a lot of cars.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#97

Post by p1esk »

woeirua wrote: post #93
p1esk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did buy a new car a few months ago, and the best possible driver assist features were a priority for me. I bought Chrysler Pacifica minivan with their "advanced" driver assist package. It's just an adaptive cruise control plus warnings when I drift off out of a clearly marked lane. It does not offer a lane keeping ability. That's a $50k 2020 model with all premium features added. I haven't tried Comma, but from wha…

This is a legitimate criticism. I can't for the life of me, figure out why manufacturers are still artificially segmenting their products with software. Some cars have had fairly capable lane tracing since the 2019 MY, and others still don't for the 2021 MY.

However, now that I have the adaptive cruise control, I get anxious that I might get into an accident when I think it's enabled while it isn't. Another concern is that it won't be able to apply braking hard enough when a collision is imminent - in such situation it flashes a red warning on the display and sounds an alarm prompting me to brake, but because I haven't been actively adjusting speed with my foot, it might increase my reaction time.

So perhaps having more of those "half way there" self driving features could lead to more of such anxiety, I'm not sure. And I don't know who I would trust more, a car manufacturer, or someone like Comma AI, with my safety. Leaning towards car manufacturers to be honest.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#98

Post by shiftpgdn »

mellosouls wrote: post #87
woeirua wrote: post #83

It's neat, and a good application of the technology, but honestly I don't see this taking off because the gap between the tech and execution is closing quickly. Comma was really far ahead of everyone 5 years ago. But... we have gone from a situation where the Level 2 systems available in most new cars went from an impractical gimmick, to very useful and comparable to this in just a few years. New Toyota's (MY 2020) a…

It's really hard to see why you would buy this system for $1100 if you can just buy a new car and get this all for free A key phrase here is "just buy a new car". You might be able to afford that but most can't. I don't know what Comma AI's market strategy is but I would imagine there is a huge potential aftermarket for gizmos like this in capable older motors, with that growing as time moves on and the enabling tech…

The only manufacturer who is doing better than Comma is Tesla. Every single manufacturer (including Audi and Cadillac) are years behind Comma in terms of performance.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#99

Post by cartoonworld »

BunsanSpace wrote: post #45
bipson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main concern would be that the architecture of an OTS Android system does not offer any guarantees regarding real-time i.e. hard deadlines. Ever had an android app or even the whole phone locking up? Even if it is only for a second or two, I don't want this to happen to a device that feeds live data into my car's controller. Even if this is only level 2 driver assist. If a car would get a bogus "you are crossing a…

I think thats the ultimate plan, but if you listen to GeoHotz talk about it, he really wants an economical self driving solution. E.g. waymo cars cost 100k+ and thus isn't economical. It's also opensource so I think the end game is to have manufactures adopt this and go through the whole song and dance of getting it full validated on their vehicles.

Also likely selling access to the ml model and/or training data. Openpilot is accruing many trips/miles for their dataset, the model and data isn't open-source.

That appears to be where the gold is stashed to my eyes.

If the software is open source and works very well, comma will still have a long lead in developing a great self driving model for which the bricks are miles driven down the road in normal commutes and trips by real drivers in real world conditions.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#100

Post by [deleted] »

arc0 wrote: post #73
SwimSwimHungry wrote: post #2

George Hotz continues to keep blowing up the tech space somehow. I legitimately wonder if he's a savant, because he seems unstoppable. I did hear he has also stood on the shoulders of giants to get to where he is as well, so who knows.

He streams on Youtube/Twitch fairly regularly, just from watching it is totally obvious that he is a genius-level programmer. The speed with which he reads and comprehends academic papers is incredibly impressive.

[deleted]
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