Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 403 posts

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#91

Post by mikey_p »

JshWright wrote: post #12
gabereiser wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also about positioning. Honda’s brand wasn't performing as well as they would like in F1. Probably in addition to it being expensive.

Which is crazy, given the fact that Max Verstappen's Honda-powered Red Bull is the only car on the gird that can put up any challenge whatsoever against Mercedes and a Honda-powered Alpha Tauri _won_ at Monza (a circuit where engine performance is critical).

Yeah, but it's hard to shake the image of McLaren Honda and Alonso and Button suffering from 2015-2017. Those were some miserable races, and the stress was being publicly taken out on two well respected drivers towards the end of their careers.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#92

Post by nexuist »

nemo44x wrote: post #75

Auto racing will just never be the same. I don’t even think EV racing will evolve the sport. The golden days of auto racing involved real innovation like creating super chargers, turbos, certain efficiencies, and improvements in potting, etc. There was a time when we just didn’t know what could be done to build an engine that could run near the edge without blowing. I don’t think EV will ever have its equivalent. Jus…

Surely there is room for innovating outside of ICE and electric engines; what about land based rocket engines? I'm sure there's a lot to work on there ;)

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#93

Post by nomad543 »

xadhominemx wrote: post #40

Honda is like a decade behind Tesla and 5 years behind GM and VW on BEV so they definitely need to invest (as does Toyota) I doubt there is actually a link to dropping F1, however.

Are you kidding? You need to see more of the outside world. Tesla has zero tech advantage on BEV. Go to China, every mom and pop factory can build a new BEV vehicle on a weekend. BEVs vehicles are so easy to build that cars will be a comoditized item. Infinite amount of battery suppliers. The only reason traditional car makers are not focusing too much on EVs right now is because there is not enough profits currently.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#94

Post by xigency »

nomad543 wrote: post #87
sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Tesla didn't kill anything, electric battery technology is old and simple, any car maker can quickly switch to battery. In fact, battery vehicles are orders of magnitude easier to build than ICE vehicles. You talk as if Tesla had invented something extraordinaire. Stop drinking the kool aid.

Your comment reminds me of the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? Most automakers were capable of making electric vehicles decades ago.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#95

Post by serf »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

F1 technology is a lot more than just power-trains, I wish people would understand that better.

Fuel chemistry, aerodynamics, functional simulation, driver ergonomics, safety dynamics, tire chemistry, metallurgy, analytics, data recording, composites, suspension, real-time telemetry and communication, digital systems management.. the list goes on forever.

If the device/technique/procedure wasn't invented by F1, it was made better by it, and tons of it have trickled down to consumer products in the past 70+ years.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#96

Post by ip26 »

W-Stool wrote: post #84

Think about this scenario for a minute: You are top designer at an F1 team. You've got an idea that will (maybe) make the car go faster. Say it is a different profile rear wing. So you get the lads to build one up (you have your own carbon fibre maufacturing facility on site) and you mount it on the current car and then arrange for the team to rent (say) Brands Hatch for the day, run the new wing, compare sector time…

This is all in the name of reducing expenses of course, but it has the opposite effect.

I always thought it was more like, Ferrari will always spend gobs of money and a small player can only spend a tenth as much- the amount of money spent will not change- but how can we narrow the gap between the high budget & low budget teams, such that a really awesome low budget team has a chance of catching a high budget team napping.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#97

Post by sumanthvepa »

nomad543 wrote: post #87
sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Tesla didn't kill anything, electric battery technology is old and simple, any car maker can quickly switch to battery. In fact, battery vehicles are orders of magnitude easier to build than ICE vehicles. You talk as if Tesla had invented something extraordinaire. Stop drinking the kool aid.

It's not Tesla's technological prowess that is killing F1. It's their marketing dominance that's reason for their effect on F1. They have dominated mindshare to the extent that governments are fully invested in building the infrastructure for electric vehicles, even in developing countries where hybrid tech would be a better idea.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#98

Post by nomad543 »

xigency wrote: post #94
nomad543 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla didn't kill anything, electric battery technology is old and simple, any car maker can quickly switch to battery. In fact, battery vehicles are orders of magnitude easier to build than ICE vehicles. You talk as if Tesla had invented something extraordinaire. Stop drinking the kool aid.

Your comment reminds me of the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? Most automakers were capable of making electric vehicles decades ago.

Your comment reminds me of the members of the Peoples Temple hehe.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#99

Post by toyg »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #70
zebrafish wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formula E already exists. As a PR play, other power unit manufacturers may follow Honda. Volkswagen put a lot of pressure on them with their announcement last year. However, I don’t think (and hope) that ICE racing will go anywhere. The engineering challenges and reliability challenges are part of racing that EVs remove from the equation. I don’t understand why EVs can’t have their place as personal and commercial ve…

The issue is going to be that racing is where vehicle manufacturers go to push the limits of their cutting edge technology. Which they don't fundamentally create for racing but for the versions of it that trickle into production vehicles. If everyone starts expecting the decline of ICE vehicles in the market, who is going to be putting a lot of resources into continuing to improve them?

> their cutting edge technology. Which they don't fundamentally create for racing but for the versions of it that trickle into production vehicles

Nah. Open-wheel racing has not been about actual research, already, for more than 20 years. The standard-bearer itself, Ferrari, was a racing team first and a manufacturer later; even today they are not in F1 for research but for marketing purposes (merchandising is basically their prime source of revenue). Open-wheel is largely a show, and it will continue to run as long as the show gets viewers, one way or the other.

Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead

#100

Post by dokem »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #78

F1's problem is that it is a technological marvel that is simultaneously obsolete. Like the XB-71 Valkyrie project of the US AirForce, the technology powering modern F1 hybrid power trains is just outstandingly brilliant. However, just like the XB-71 was made obsolete by the advent of ICBMs, the hybrid power train's future for road cars has been overtaken by the advent of Tesla and battery electric vehicles. The meta…

Aren’t there rules imposed in F1 to keep the technology relevant to industry? Why can’t F1 evolve towards electric with new rules?
Post reply on HN