F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
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Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also just announced that will continue to be an IndyCar supplier for a long while. F1 power units (including the hybrid components) are more efficient than the Indy counterparts. This isn't _actually_ about carbon-free anything... It's about F1 being expensive.
It’s also about positioning. Honda’s brand wasn't performing as well as they would like in F1. Probably in addition to it being expensive.
Which is crazy, given the fact that Max Verstappen's Honda-powered Red Bull is the only car on the gird that can put up any challenge whatsoever against Mercedes and a Honda-powered Alpha Tauri _won_ at Monza (a circuit where engine performance is critical).
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#13F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
Simple, F1 and nascar are both races. Rally is a time trial.
Generally I think people find racing more exciting.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are still committed to Indycar, Le Mans and FIA World Endurance but is all done from the US while the F1 program was more costly to run and also used engineering resources based in Japan.
The F1 program was by far their most expensive program, and would have easily had the worst ROI. The Honda engine (well, _this_ Honda engine at least) was not going to win a world championship. It was miles behind the Mercedes engine, it didn't even look as good as the Renault one. Even the crippled Ferrari engine was beating one of the Honda teams. The main Red Bull team has got some not bad results from it, but tha…
> Even the crippled Ferrari engine was beating one of the Honda teams.
The current points order is:
- Verstappen (Red Bull Honda)
- Albon (Red Bull Honda)
- Leclerc (Ferrari)
- Gasly (Alpha Tauri Honda)
- Vettel (Ferrari)
- Kvyat (Alpha Tauri Honda)
- Raikonnen (Alfa Romeo Ferrari)
- Giovianazzi (Alfa Romeo Ferrari)
- Magnussen (Haas Ferrari)
- Grosjean (Haas Ferrari)
I think any claim that Honda is worse than Ferrari will need more evidence.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#15[deleted]
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#16F1 isn't what it used to be last century. Races were nail biting epic contests, cars visibly improved every season, drivers were international celebrities dicing with real life ending risk, and passionate fans filled the stadiums. Modern races are just a procession of the same few people each weekend in global rich social events.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#17That is awesome! Honda, you rock.
They also just announced that will continue to be an IndyCar supplier for a long while. F1 power units (including the hybrid components) are more efficient than the Indy counterparts. This isn't _actually_ about carbon-free anything... It's about F1 being expensive.
And Indycar is also going the hybrid route in 2023.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#18F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
F1 does a great job of telling a story. the racing itself isn't too exciting, but as a casual spectator it's much more accessible to somebody like me who doesn't really follow it at all but pays attention once in a while. the rivalries are well publicized and the races are obvious. I have no clue what's going on in a rally race, but if i'm over at somebody's place and they've got F1 on the tv, i can probably find something about it to enjoy.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#19F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
Simple, F1 and nascar are both races. Rally is a time trial. Generally I think people find racing more exciting.
Right - I can see an argument being made between Moto GP over F1 (less emphasis on starting position, far more passing) but not Rally over F1 as it's a different beast. I used to love F1 (partly since it was often well timed for hungover Sundays off work for me when I was at university) so I really get both the fun and the frustrations with Formula 1.
Re: Honda quits F1, invests in carbon-free tech instead
#20F-1 has always baffled me as a sport. Not that it's inherently bad or boring, just that there are so many motor sports that make it look that way. Same with NASCAR. I don't understand how an audience for those exists when, for example, rally races exist.
F-1 was really interesting years ago. With no traction control or advanced aerodynamics and less regulations on engine power, it was a real arena for drivers.
It was so fierce that Senna decided to hit his rival in the first corner of a race, taking out both, solidifying Senna's championship.
It was exciting too. Since drivers need to take risks with 750+ HP beasts, Senna battling Schumacher, Villneuve battling Coulthard was fun.
Pit-stop tactics was the cherry on top, not the secret sauce. Engines and drive trains were not regulated. After some deaths, non rational gains (Mercedes 7G-tronic was so quick when paired with their engine. It just accelerated uninterrupted so it got banned. Renault's Open Injection engine was so powerful so it got banned a year later) and hey, it's getting too expensive cries (and Ferrari-Gate), it lost its luster for the audience.
Now the war is behind the scenes. Homologated parts, limited testing and simulation (they have yearly CPU instruction limits!) and some good people rule the sport.
It's no longer about the drivers. It's about the car you drive and the people behind it. If you have the season's best engine and Adrian Newey in your car design team, you can just win.
So it feels like the movie "Death Race" if you have a good car, you have advantage and if it doesn't break down, you win. That's it.
I left watching it the day Ferrari admitted that they're basically financed by FIA (by getting 23% more advertisement revenue cut at the end, every year).
Some more points: Standardized ECU just killed a lot of excitement by limiting remote engine tuning. Ferrari's domination slowly eroded excitement for most people. Drivers being immature and getting away with it eroded its prestige for me. I still miss Jaguar's green/gold cars. Boy, they were handsome.
So its golden era is long gone. No wonder Honda is leaving.