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Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

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Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#91

Post by catchmeifyoucan »

btrask wrote: post #67
alexfringes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say to you: “mind throwing this battery in the recycling on your way out, I care about its harmful materials not seeping into the environment” and you say “yes” but then decide “this battery could still power my nephew’s toy car for a bit”. But then your nephew throws it in the regular trash eventually. You’ve broken your promise to me. If you’re also the world’s most valuable public company you’ve made that promis…

Isn't that still better than your nephew buying a brand new battery and then throwing it in the trash? Even if he only got a week's worth of use out of the old battery. Reusing things doesn't change the overall recycling rate. It just reduces the demand for new things (which is why Apple dislikes it). Knowing how to Reduce, Reuse, Recycle (in that order!) is much better than some sort of cargo cult destruction of wor…

Not quite. You now end up with an extra battery in the trash. Though you were able to get more life out of one item, you reduce the likelihood that it’ll be recycled again. So the metal parts like antennas, aluminum, that could have been reused for future devices, are now sitting in the trash after the device dies. There is a slight chance the device could be sent to recycling again after it completely dies. Let’s say Apple had assumed a 15% recycling rate, and 3 tons of aluminum in return, you now have a much lower return rate in materials than anticipated because the devices were essentially “stolen” and resold. Seems like fraud to me.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#92

Post by mariuolo »

danaris wrote: post #78
ksk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fake argument anyway. People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Is this common-sense somehow magically forgotten when Apple is concerned?

> People perfectly understand that when they buy a used car, it could have had damage from the previous owner or other wear and tear. Sure, some people do. Other people will have a problem with whatever they happen to be using, find the first logo or name on it, and go complain at that entity through any communications channel they can find, totally ignoring them saying, "Yes, I understand your used Ford Taurus won't…

Like this guy https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/ ?

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#94

Post by franga2000 »

mortenjorck wrote: post #30
RandallBrown wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets say you buy one of these recycled phones that Apple has already deemed unfixable. Maybe it mostly works, but the screen occasionally blacks out or there's a bunch of dead pixels. Maybe the battery dies almost immediately. It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this.

This is really the critical question here: Are these phones actually unfixable? If they are, reusing them will only cause more problems (not to mention burning more fossil fuels as they are shipped to consumers and then shipped back within a few months for recycling a second time). If they aren't, then recycling is the wrong destination for these units.

Well if they were unfixable, the company surely wouldn't have been able to re-sell them, would it?

A refurbishing company whose phones die within a few months wouldn't survive for long, and that's generally not how hardware defects work anyways. Things you can "patch up" only temporarily are very uncommon, so these devices would probably get an extra year of life at the very least, offsetting any possible shipping "cost".

And even those that can't be repaired in the Archimede's ship sense, would go to shops like Rossman Repair Group that would use them for parts in fixing other damaged devices. Even if they only use one dead phone to fix one damaged one, that is still a net positive than if the damaged one would've had to be fully replaced.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#95

Post by franga2000 »

jmole wrote: post #46
andrewjl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Apple's reputation more important than the profits of a recycling company? Contracts aside, banning resale over something like this isn't capitalism. You either own something or you don't. Edit: I misunderstood the article and thought that the devices were sold. Indeed a service contract for recycling should be enforced, unless health & safety reasons preclude. Apple is in the right here, I think.

lol, imagine you paid a company to recycle old hard drives or documents and they resold them instead.

No! That is not even close to being comparable!

These devices are almost always soft-wiped before being shipped out and failing that, always 100% encrypted. Many of these were either scavenged for parts, all but one of which are entirely non-sensitive, or re-sold whole, which necessarily entails another software wipe, making recovery of ciphertext near impossible (but also, still encrypted even if you did).

"lol, imagine being so blinded by greed that you would destroy thousands of working devices, force barely-paid workers in horrible conditions to make almost identical devices out of dirty materials mined by children with guns to their heads, which you would then proceed to sell to those same consumers whose devices you just threw away for more than a month's salary."

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#96

Post by franga2000 »

doyouevensunbro wrote: post #18
RandallBrown wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets say you buy one of these recycled phones that Apple has already deemed unfixable. Maybe it mostly works, but the screen occasionally blacks out or there's a bunch of dead pixels. Maybe the battery dies almost immediately. It's Apple's reputation that gets tarnished by this.

I’m wondering if you could just engrave into these devices that they were “reclaimed” or “recycled” so that it’s clear that Apple no longer is on the hook but people can still use if they choose to do so.

Basically nobody is selling recycled iPhones as if they were new. Apple has an impressive amount of control over their retail channels and buyers aren't idiots.

The problem for Apple isn't that people would think their refurb iPhones were new, it's that Apple simply doesn't want poor people to have them because it might hurt their sale of 700$ computer wheels if they don't seem like a luxury brand. As a bonus, if they destroy all the broken devices, repair shops have no access to replacement parts and so there's nobody to challenge them when they tell you to buy a new 1000$ phone because yours has an "irreparable" bent flex cable pin.

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#97

Post by R0b0t1 »

ascot_attn_atol wrote: post #22
pier25 wrote: post #17

Not allowing the resale of used devices should be illegal. Not only because of the environmental impact but also because this is a way for Apple to control the market.

Reselling devices is good. Taking devices that were sent to you to be recycled and then reselling them is bad.

Reselling is basically recycling. Did the contract specify they had to be munched or stripped?

Re: Apple says electronics recycler “illegally” reselling over 100k iPhones, iPads

#98

Post by temp667 »

michaelmrose wrote: post #72
temp667 wrote: post #55

Good for apple. The way this scam often works - you send your device in, they say there is a flaw and the device is not eligible for trade-in credit because it can't be re-used. Then they offer to "recycle" it for you. Then, instead of recycling they sell it. This is the consumer side of the scam. It can also be run against manufacturer like apple. Apple can offer trade in credit to consumers, then send it to these g…

Do you have any evidence that the contracts are structured as you describe?

Brightstar is probably one of the major US players you could look at. Take a look at their relationship with T-Mobile - they handle the trade-in piece (and reverse logistics) which is revenue generating for T-Mobile. With experience the trade-in provider can offer a fixed rate per sku / consumer reported quality once it has a sense of statistical quality of items and screening procedures for store trade-ins.

This actually looks more like a situation where apple had already assessed as not reselable under their policies - so these were perhaps all for recycling only?

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