Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs • Hacker News Board

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#91

Post by resu_nimda » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

freediver wrote: post #63

Roboblox could not be farther from MUDs and only people who played MUDs can appreciate the difference. Lets start with the obvious - MUDs use text and "text is the highest bandwidth medium for our imagination" (quote by Bartle, co-creator of first MUD). I recommend everyone watching this video to understand why is text so superior to any other medium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zctp972y_Eg Incidentally the lockd…

Having heard this sentiment a lot during my gaming days (and as well in the context of books vs. movies), I've always felt a certain amount of shame for not being able to get into text games. Is there something wrong with my imagination? I don't think so, I'm a total daydreamer type whose head is always filled with random thoughts and ideas.

I like to think there's an axis orthogonal to "imaginative capability" that factors into why some people prefer text and some (ok, most) prefer graphics.

An interesting part of this is EVE Online, which has plenty of pretty graphics, but I've never been able to get into that (or any spaceship-based game for that matter), despite being a style of game (sandbox/world-building) that I otherwise really like.

Seeing the screenshots of UO and SWG in the article gives me the chills. I was fully immersed in those games (particularly SWG). It seems that running around a world as an individual humanoid character is the most deeply engaging experience to me.

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#92

Post by wy35 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #33

This Twitter thread about Roblox really enlightened me about it, had no idea how it was more of a game engine and how much money people were making with it. https://twitter.com/molleindustria/status/128376418142720000...

It's crazy how people still consider Roblox a single game. The platform has so many games that it went through distinct cycles of popular genres. Back when I played (2009ish) the dominating genres were "zombie defense" [1] and "build to survive X" [2]. Only a few years later, those games became completely empty. It's also interesting to note that these games held the top spots at Roblox for years, but have a small number of the total visits compared to the most popular games today due to Roblox's exploding playerbase.

1. https://www.roblox.com/games/2557808/Shaakras-Zombie-Defence... 2.https://www.roblox.com/games/2899609/Build-To-Survive-Drakob...

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#93

Post by indigodaddy » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #4

Context for people considering whether it's worth reading this whole article: Roblox is a wildly successful online game popular with kids where they can create and share their own content, including video games they created themselves. Some Roblox game content (created by kids or adults) has 100k+ concurrent players. The origins of this title are pretty interesting and it's especially interesting given that you gener…

My daughter loves Roblox and plays all the time on Xbox (we restrict it to Xbox because of the lack of in-game chat). When you refer to the dearth of media attention, I guess that doesn’t include YT right? Roblox is absolutely huge on YouTube.

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#94

Post by astrobe_ » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #79

freediver wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagination is our mind's output about things that are not conveyed. Please watch the video as Bartle explains it so elaborately. Text -> low input, high output.

Right, text is the lowest bandwidth form of communicating imagination. And to make up for that low bandwidth users have to exercise their own imagination. It's like storing actual vertices of a sphere, vs. having the client execute code to generate the vertices given a position and radius. This is as opposed to graphics where the creator has enough bandwidth to actually portray their imagination on the screen. While…

> the users imagination doesn't always produce the expected output

That's not a bug, it's a feature that literature uses quite a lot.

> You're never going to have a text based racing game

Actually thinking and typing fast in some MUDs can be vital.

> There's a reason why almost all text based MUDs have a graph or grid based world and turn based gameplay: because that's all you can really do with a text based interface

Roguelikes are turn-based, but MUDs are semi-real time (sort of turn based with short time limit).

The grid layout is essentially historical in the sense that users have certain expectations. Probably one could use GPS coordinates and Logo-style commands, nowadays even a rusted Raspi could handle that.

But builders and makers are, I believe, more interested in world-, story- and character- building than in technical feats like this. And so are the players.

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#95

Post by chaostheory » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #46

chaostheory wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say Roblox games have polish either. There's also a lot of weirdness that only adolescents and tweens would fully understand because in many cases it's made by those same kids. I wouldn't consider it a MUD either. None of the games I've seen so far even have RPG traits. It's more of a powerful sandbox than even Minecraft imo

Some are quite polished. Take a look at Phantom Forces, an FPS that plays as well as Call of Duty.

That's the exception and far from the norm.

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#96

Post by cmrdporcupine » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

kieckerjan wrote: post #35

I have a company. Our first employee (twenty years ago) had a serious MUD addiction. While a decent and hard-working fellow, he couldn't resist playing his MUD on the job. That was easy enough for him: one of his many terminals was dedicated to it and he would enter a command every few minutes or so. He got a couple of formal warnings before refraining from that behaviour (or he got better at hiding it). Before he ca…

For years I had a LambdaMOO or related client open and chatted and did side stuff while I was working, while waiting for compiles, etc. I didn't have any productivity issues as a result. In fact it kept my brain sharp amid the mindnumbingly boring boilerplate JavaBeans transformation code or whatever I had to write.

I have a coworker who has his screen split with twitch running on one side all day. He's one of the most productive and smart people I know.

So I dunno, was it necessary to be 'formal warning' him?

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#97

Post by zipwitch » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

waprin wrote: post #6

MUDs are what got me into programming. I was obsessed with them as a kid, although they were associated with DnD which was considered satanic so I had to hide them from my parents and teachers, who both forbid me from associating with DnD or MUDs. Besides playing them, I actually spent more time as a "builder" than a "coder", which was an intermediate step in the hierarchy. As a builder, I would write hundreds of roo…

As someone with a pair of nieces who are Roblox junkies and who did dabble with MUDs back in the day, I can assure you that Roblox has a ton of content that is put together by enthusiastic amateurs. And while it often has heart, soul, and seems fun for those playing, it definitely doesn't have excess polish. If anything, I'd say Minecraft content tends to be far more polished than Roblox content, even after allowing for relative graphics differences.

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#98

Post by zipwitch » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #90

nvarsj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience is very similar to mine. I got most of my early programming chops doing C programming on a MUD. I also had the experience of a very religious mother throwing away all of my DnD / fantasy related games, because of the craze about satanic symbols that swept through the US in the late 80s/90s. I wish my kids would play DnD together - I can't imagine a more wholesome activity to be honest. Haha. I also mu…

>I enjoyed WoW, especially with friends, but it felt a lot more like a skinner box with nice graphics. That's exactly what WoW aims to be: A themepark and the player is there for the ride. Whatever rough edges existed in vanilla are nothing compared to games before it, the games' goal always was to be as polished as possible.

Yep. Vanilla had a few little bits of actual RPG peeking out here and there. They have long since been buffed out. Cash-extracting skinner box inside a pretty show, with a dash of e-sport and lobby game on the side seems to be a state WoW's owners are quite satisfied with.

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#99

Post by Teckla » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

dwheeler wrote: post #29

Wow, it even includes Scepter of Goth! I maintained Scepter of Goth, but because it's no longer available it's now often forgotten. I'm very happy to see it included. I think one of the key tricks and Scepter of Goth was the follow command. As a text adventure, you could say "follow X" and from then on, whenever X moved then you would move with X. That was a key trick to making it easy to create parties so they could…

https://github.com/shelches/scepter

Re: Roblox is a MUD: The history of MUDs, virtual worlds and MMORPGs

#100

Post by codeulike » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #37

codeulike wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if there's any experience like it left on the internet Multiplayer AI Dungeon? Powered by GPT2 https://aidungeon.page.link/?link=https://play?playPublicId=...

lol, quite a story going on in there > Yeetlock investigates the ancient assembly language. You find that the ancient language was originally used to create a holographic image inside the robot's spherical eye. Now that you are very close to the robot, the image becomes visible to you. The image in the robot's eye is actually a portal into a deeper dimension. You can see and hear the screams of a thousand ghosts scre…

Enter Bob Saget

> Yeetlock says "Let me guess... You're Bob Saget."

You hear a loud "Tch." from the other end of the line. "Correct." "Then why did you call?

> hacker1 opens a hatch on the side of the Pony to find Bob Saget hiding inside.

You hear a loud "Tch." from the other end of the line. Bob walks out and reveals his lupine form. "I thought only werewolves could change during the full moon.

> hacker1 says "Tch"

"I have a plan... But I need you to distract the guard at the cockpit so I can get inside. You look tough enough, and this uniform should do the trick. You agree to help Bob. "

> Yeetlock casts a spell on Bob Saget making him very small.

The guard at the cockpit doesn't even bat an eye as Bob enters the cockpit. "Alright, I need you to push the button that says 'Play 40's Hits' over there."

> Yeetlock pushes the button called 'play 40's hits'

The music begins to blare out. Bob gets his revenge on the guard and dances along to the music.

> Yeetlock says "How did you know that the guard hated 40's hits so badly?"

"...Because I took Chemistry." "...What?" "I took Chemistry... And I know that all carbon based life forms have a sense of rhythm. Go check his pulse."

> Yeetlock checks the guard's pulse.

There's a faint pulse, but it's very weak.Bob dances to the music in the cockpit. Meanwhile, you sneak back towards the door where the guard is standing.

> Yeetlock calls Bounty the pony to come over.

The pony walks over to the doorway.The guard turns around to look at the pony, and Bounty immediately kicks the guard in the head, knocking him out.

> Yeetlock says "Thanks Bounty, you're the best."

Bob says "Alright, the ship is mine." He begins walking through the hallways of the ship.

> Yeetlock says "So what is your ultimate plan Bob?"

"...I'm going to get the original plans for the ship so I can rebuild it's technology to use as my own." "Really? That's bold. I didn't expect you'd go that route."