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Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

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Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#91

Post by ben_w »

antepodius wrote: post #59
Fiveplus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a baby is such a crucial and important event in any woman's life that a mandated pre-delivery-full-pay leave seems like a viable mandated right I would whole-heartedly support.

Would it be illegal for a newly pregnant woman to go and interview for 10 jobs, each of which she then never sets foot in because she immediately goes on pregnancy leave while still being paid for them all? Asking for a friend...

If I understand correctly, in Germany that works fine and is a lot less profitable than you’re expecting because the maternity pay is based on how much you were earning a year ago.

Caveat: I’m still learning German, and this is a second-hand description from a coworker who is a father but isn’t an employment lawyer

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#92

Post by i_cannot_hack »

dependenttypes wrote: post #79

So both the taxpayer and the employer have to fund their decision to become pregnant, huh? This is quite sad, I am glad that I do not live in Australia, especically when combined with its politicians saying "genius" things such as https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathema... , its new encryption law, and its porn censorship.

If the parents do not have the resources to give the child a stable and healthy upbringing (becouse you want to save money), it will lead to a much higher risk of destructive outcomes like poverty, disease and crime. All of which you will have to pay for later via your taxes, in one way or another.

It's my firm belief that you are short-sighted in this regard, and that your way of prioritizing will lead to worse outcomes for everyone involved, including yourself. Not to mention you seem a bit indifferent to the suffering of children, but that is beside the point.

Giving our children a good start in life is an investment for the future, just like spending money to educate children in school is an investment for the future.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#93

Post by whotheffknows »

dependenttypes wrote: post #87
whotheffknows wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Men should get paternity leave too Or neither should. > In most countries they do Nope > but European countries I am living in one. > y'all boys Not a boy > telling women creating you has no economic value I did not say that. > this entitled nonsense So I am entitled for saying that you are not entitled to money that you did not earn? What? > while you scoop up those six figure salaries More like barely 5 figure sa…

Also are you from eastern Europe or something? Denmark, Finland and average paid maternity leave across the EU is higher than the states. Sorry your facts are wrong, but we get it youre a special flower from that one European country who doesn't have paid maternity leave and you're not a boy which somehow means you can't be sexist even though it doesn't.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#94

Post by [deleted] »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #86

Another is less air pollution, from fewer cars being on the roads. "This might actually help because studies in the past showed that air pollution actually increases the risk for preterm birth," Alshaikh said. One takeaway that doesn't involve arguing about the so-called Patriarchy and what not: Let's just try to lower pollution rates generally. It's good for everyone, including but not limited to pregnant women.

[deleted]

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#95

Post by DoreenMichele »

dependenttypes wrote: post #79

So both the taxpayer and the employer have to fund their decision to become pregnant, huh? This is quite sad, I am glad that I do not live in Australia, especically when combined with its politicians saying "genius" things such as https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathema... , its new encryption law, and its porn censorship.

decision to become pregnant is generally the thinking of enormously privileged people for whom birth control is taken as a given, etc. Throughout human history, much of our systems of morality, like shotgun weddings, were rooted in "Babies happen. What now?"

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#96

Post by nearbuy »

ben_w wrote: post #83
stanfordkid wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to move past the genderization of capitalism (an abstract force) into "patriarchy" -- Capitalism has no interest in gender, age, or pretty much anything relating to human qualities. The trending force for capitalism is to have humans automated away -- let alone be given free money to have a baby. I actually find the notion of "patriarchy" incredibly sexist -- were not men the canaries in the coalmine…

> I actually find the notion of "patriarchy" incredibly sexist -- were not men the canaries in the coalmine -- the original victims -- for the dehumanization of capitalism? Given that women didn’t have a vote when the Industrial Age made coal mining into a primary power source, and given that marriage was seen as making the concept of rape logically impossible until 1992 in the UK [0], I disagree. Separately, I would…

> Given that women didn’t have a vote when the Industrial Age made coal mining into a primary power source, and given that marriage was seen as making the concept of rape logically impossible until 1992 in the UK [0], I disagree.

I'm not following how this relates to the comment you're replying to. Are you saying that women are the original victims of capitalism? Or that capitalism was created by men? Or something else?

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#97

Post by dependenttypes »

whotheffknows wrote: post #89
dependenttypes wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men should get paternity leave too Or neither should. > In most countries they do Nope > but European countries I am living in one. > y'all boys Not a boy > telling women creating you has no economic value I did not say that. > this entitled nonsense So I am entitled for saying that you are not entitled to money that you did not earn? What? > while you scoop up those six figure salaries More like barely 5 figure sa…

I don't care if you're a boy. Your views are sexist. If I knew how little you made I wouldn't even considered you a developer who has opinions on this. You live in Europe. If you don't work in the United States then this conversation isn't for you. However hard you think you have it at the expense of women getting paid while they give birth to humans isn't as hard as you think. That's why Europe pays you under six fi…

> I don't care if you're a boy

You care enough to call me one.

> Your views are sexist

Because I think that the taxpayers nor the employers should be forced to pay neither men nor women maternity leave?

> If I knew how little you made I wouldn't even considered you a developer who has opinions on this.

Sorry for chosing to be born in a poor country I guess. (besides, it is not as if unpaid people who are developers of open source software do not exist)

> If you don't work in the United States then this conversation isn't for you

Do you not realize that you are the first person who mentioned the US in this thread?

> However hard you think you have it at the expense of women getting paid while they give birth to humans isn't as hard as you think

What?

> because higher quality of life

Yeah no. The quality of life is much better in the US or in the capitals of richer EU countries (but not in their smaller cities).

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#98

Post by dependenttypes »

whotheffknows wrote: post #93
dependenttypes wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men should get paternity leave too Or neither should. > In most countries they do Nope > but European countries I am living in one. > y'all boys Not a boy > telling women creating you has no economic value I did not say that. > this entitled nonsense So I am entitled for saying that you are not entitled to money that you did not earn? What? > while you scoop up those six figure salaries More like barely 5 figure sa…

Also are you from eastern Europe or something? Denmark, Finland and average paid maternity leave across the EU is higher than the states. Sorry your facts are wrong, but we get it youre a special flower from that one European country who doesn't have paid maternity leave and you're not a boy which somehow means you can't be sexist even though it doesn't.

> Sorry your facts are wrong

My facts are right. Most countries do not provide maternity leave to fathers, in fact I am not aware of any that do.

> but we get it youre a special flower

Have you considered not being an asshole?

> which somehow means you can't be sexist even though it doesn't.

I never said that.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#99

Post by dungdang »

motakraxxer wrote: post #49
tasogare wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Late stage pregnancy mothers legitimately need less physical strain and more opportunity to take care of their bodies or the baby comes early. Keeping the same active pace of work for a few weeks in the third trimester can cost years of additional effort and suffering as a premature baby may accrue permanent damage. You are rediscovering why in traditional societies woman stop working when getting pregnant. This is…

The plot by patriarchy is not asking women to stop working during the third trimester. The plot is to ignore those needs and punish women who stop working by not paying them maternity leave or holding their pregnancy against them when they come back to the workforce.

that's not a plot. that's a refusal to let you externalize your baby costs to innocent people. do you want your company, which hired you to write code, to pay for your diapers too? what do they have to do with you having a baby? why are they paying you money when you are not working? why are they expected to spend more total money on you, than your equal who chose not to have a baby?

baby -awesome. you were hired for work. keep your petsonal life out of the office please. if you cannot perform your job due to a baby, you don't get paid.

having a baby is expensive and after taking time off -sorry, you're no longer at the same skill level. you want to do it? awesome. you are not entitled to externalize your costs to other people.

there should be no maternity leave. zero.

Re: Fewer premature babies born since Covid-19 lockdown

#100

Post by dependenttypes »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #95
dependenttypes wrote: post #79

So both the taxpayer and the employer have to fund their decision to become pregnant, huh? This is quite sad, I am glad that I do not live in Australia, especically when combined with its politicians saying "genius" things such as https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathema... , its new encryption law, and its porn censorship.

decision to become pregnant is generally the thinking of enormously privileged people for whom birth control is taken as a given, etc. Throughout human history, much of our systems of morality, like shotgun weddings, were rooted in "Babies happen. What now?"

> is generally the thinking of enormously privileged people for whom birth control is taken as a given

If you do not have money for birth control then for sure you do not have enough money for a child. I suggest abstaining from sex in that case.

> Throughout human history, much of our systems of morality, like shotgun weddings, were rooted in "Babies happen. What now?"

Not sure how this is relevant, we are living in the present.

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