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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#91

Post by bjr11 »

Ghjklov wrote: post #74
deogeo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and f…

I envy your ability to be certain about such complex and nuanced topics. To type unverifiable opinions as fact without the least bit of embarrassment is breath taking. Thank you!

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#92

Post by Impossible »

jazzyk wrote: post #81
Impossible wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

I disagree - many inner-city youths are into super-expensive sneakers ($300 and up), golden chains and other status symbols dictated by the social environment they grow up in. Computers are just not cool enough. Yes, there are exceptions, but the stereotype - unfortunately - mostly holds.. More money helps to a point, but what these young people need more than anything is appropriate role models (engineers, scientist…

How many "inner-city youths" do you actually know? Or are you playing into a convenient stereotype? I grew up with "inner-city youths" that loved computers, and kids now have significantly more access. You're just wrong here. Also I knew many well off urban and suburban white and Asian kids that did not think computers were cool, so your stereotypes are unfounded

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#93

Post by SiVal »

neffy wrote: post #71
eikenberry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there are 2 problems with this. First is that the federal government doesn't have the legal standing to take over the education system. I believe it would require a constitutional amendment to allow it and I don't think they'd get that passed. Secondly, I'm not sure it is such a great idea. Currently federal level education direction comes from the teachers union and you can see the fruits of its labors in…

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools. Small class sizes, and well qualified(paid) teachers. It is that simple. You can try whatever alternative educational styles you want, and it will not work in a class size of 50. Nor does the federal government have to take over the education system to achieve this, it just has to guarantee equal funding for all students. Or the US can continue to…

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools

There is plenty of debate about what makes for good schools. Many school districts are large enough to include neighborhoods on "both sides of the tracks". It is the same school district with the same pay, same class sizes, same teacher demographics, but different student body demographics. Result is often a large disparity in outcomes for students. In one school, a student who wants to succeed has to compete with his classmates who want the same thing. In another, the same student would be abused by classmates for trying to succeed. Parents in these latter districts will often make huge efforts to pretend to be living a few miles away to give their children not smaller classes or different teachers but different classmates.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#94

Post by CyberDildonics »

eikenberry wrote: post #40
neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

Seems like there are 2 problems with this. First is that the federal government doesn't have the legal standing to take over the education system. I believe it would require a constitutional amendment to allow it and I don't think they'd get that passed. Secondly, I'm not sure it is such a great idea. Currently federal level education direction comes from the teachers union and you can see the fruits of its labors in…

They didn't say anything about federal direction, only about evening out the funding between schools.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#95

Post by Impossible »

GoodJokes wrote: post #60
Impossible wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they said, racism is still an issue, but lack of role models and exposure is possibly a bigger issue. Lack of exposure and role models is a symptom of long term systemic racism though, but it doesn't manifest in the same way many people think of racism. Lack of positive thinking isn't quite the right term here, because it assumes that if Black kids just believed in themselves and thought differently it would fix a…

So it is racism then? Its ok to say it. Its racism. OC was racist too.

I agree. My comment was worded in order to avoid confusing people that equate racism with individual bigotry and prejudice

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#96

Post by CyberDildonics »

jazzyk wrote: post #81
Impossible wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

I disagree - many inner-city youths are into super-expensive sneakers ($300 and up), golden chains and other status symbols dictated by the social environment they grow up in. Computers are just not cool enough. Yes, there are exceptions, but the stereotype - unfortunately - mostly holds.. More money helps to a point, but what these young people need more than anything is appropriate role models (engineers, scientist…

This seems like a stereotype from movies and TV rather than a generalization of real systemic information. Do you have numbers to back this up?

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#97

Post by tikititaki »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #32
neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

Why is that the first thing people think of when it comes to explaining black behavior is that they must be poor? Not all black people are poor. Stop it with the stereotypes.

"A close examination of wealth in the U.S. finds evidence of staggering racial disparities. At $171,000, the net worth of a typical white family is nearly ten times greater than that of a Black family ($17,150) in 2016."

Source: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining...

Of course not all black people are poor, but that's a very poor understanding of statistics. Just because a black man became President or there are millionaire black men, doesn't mean that institutional racism is suddenly over or economic equality has been established.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#98

Post by [deleted] »

rootusrootus wrote: post #76
crooked-v wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But from the perspective of a parent, why should I be disallowed from providing my own kids every possible advantage I can afford? Because it's bad for society, and because there's a long since established moral precedent in favor of things that may make life slightly worse for any given individual but better for a large majority of everyone. It's also worth keeping in mind that there's a massive difference between…

> Because it's bad for society That is a very big claim. It seems just as plausible to suggest that society will in fact be collectively better off if every parent gives their kid the best possible start in life, even if some kids will miss out due to circumstance.

[deleted]

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#99

Post by selimthegrim »

jazzyk wrote: post #81
Impossible wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

I disagree - many inner-city youths are into super-expensive sneakers ($300 and up), golden chains and other status symbols dictated by the social environment they grow up in. Computers are just not cool enough. Yes, there are exceptions, but the stereotype - unfortunately - mostly holds.. More money helps to a point, but what these young people need more than anything is appropriate role models (engineers, scientist…

Michael Harriot from the Root has an answer for you (and Pete Buttigieg) - https://www.theroot.com/pete-buttigieg-called-me-heres-what-... in response to https://www.theroot.com/pete-buttigieg-is-a-lying-mf-1840038...

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#100

Post by tikititaki »

jazzyk wrote: post #81
Impossible wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

I disagree - many inner-city youths are into super-expensive sneakers ($300 and up), golden chains and other status symbols dictated by the social environment they grow up in. Computers are just not cool enough. Yes, there are exceptions, but the stereotype - unfortunately - mostly holds.. More money helps to a point, but what these young people need more than anything is appropriate role models (engineers, scientist…

Obviously, kids are all going to want to emulate their role models. Whether the role models are Lance Armstrong or Lebron James, they will be influenced in one direction or another because of that.

But there is a very real fact that certain peoples don't have access to computers. My wife grew up in a poor area, and they did not have a computer in their home until she was 16 when got a laptop as a gift.

I grew up poor, but as a foreigner with no real contact with others so I stayed mostly at home. My father used to love buying old cheap computers at garage sales, so I would mix and match hardware from the old computers and I managed to learn a lot.

Both of us grew up poor, but I grew up to be a programmer because I had plenty of access to computers while growing up. It was always natural to me, and it was hard for her.

Neither of us idolized gold chains or expensive shoes. I think what you're saying is a harmful and frankly, racist stereotype. Just because a family buys a $200 pair of shoes for their child on Christmas, doesn't mean that means the child shouldn't have access to computers. Rich families will give their kids expensive things as well as give access to computers.

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